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[Playergamer]

when people use the phrase "punching nazis" they generally refer to doing this. anyone who unironically talks about "punching nazis" instantly earns my ire, especially when you consider the huge amount of influence these groups have gained just by being punched.

What should be particularly worrisome about supposedly "anti-fascist" terrorists like this is that not only do they approve of "punching" (often actually assault with a deadly weapon) "Nazis," but their definition of "Nazi" is as fluid as a Usenet poster's.  It is essentially anyone who disagrees with them in any way.

I'm googling it and I literally cannot turn up a single person killed by Antifa?  Like typing things like "antifa killing" "killed by antifa" or "killed by anti-fascist" is literally just turning up antifascist people who were killed by neo-nazies... in other countries.  Hell, I looked up "list of antifa attacks" and I got... Berkley.  It wasn't even a list, it was just that.

Which is funny because I can find at least one person who was killed by a neonazi in America since 2017.

"assault with a deadly weapon" is not "murder."

as someone who lives in berkeley, I can list a shitload of instances of antifa morons assaulting people with a deadly weapon, i.e. Eric Clanton bike-locking three people, all of them non-violent, at the April 15th rally, or someone who still hasn't been fucking caught hitting a prone man over the head with a shovel. If you think this isn't a fucking problem...if you think that two lone wolf stabbings by mental cases are worse than a nationwide trend of political violence...I don't think I can help here. It's despicable the kind of damage alt-right types do, but trying to deflect using that is cowardly.

Cites Berkeley (literally a byword for the far-left in America), extrapolates this to "a nationwide trend of political violence".
Well done.

Newsflash: Outside of Berkeley, antifa isn't doing jack.

you realize these guys have shown up to events across the country, right? from auburn and nawlins to portland, from new york and boston to anaheim?

sure, they're not beating the shit out of people yet, but it's a matter of time. the cats out of the bag now, thanks to the communist ninjas. 2018 and 2020 are going to be fun, get the popcorn.

[RedKing]

So it's unfair to assume that armed alt-right militias are going to cause trouble, but it's totes okay to assume that antifa is? Just trying to set the ground rules here.

Showing up and *not* beating the shit out of people is called "peaceful assembly". Ironically, it's the same right that some people are screaming needs to be defended with armed militias.

[nenjin]

you realize these guys have shown up to events across the country, right? from auburn and nawlins to portland, from new york and boston to anaheim?

sure, they're not beating the shit out of people yet, but it's a matter of time. the cats out of the bag now, thanks to the communist ninjas. 2018 and 2020 are going to be fun, get the popcorn.

That sounds like pure Conservative Republican crack smoking paranoid bullshit. Yeah, the street are going to be overrun with antifa guys with bandanas on their faces, smashing things killing people and screaming about fascism.

Next thing you're going to say is the race war is right around the corner, because Trayvon and all other shit is finally going to come home to roost.

People need to quit engaging their politically apocalyptic masturbation fantasies. That's how we got to Trump in the first goddamn place.

[Playergamer]

So it's unfair to assume that armed alt-right militias are going to cause trouble, but it's totes okay to assume that antifa is? Just trying to set the ground rules here.

Showing up and *not* beating the shit out of people is called "peaceful assembly". Ironically, it's the same right that some people are screaming needs to be defended with armed militias.

i'm not assuming that "armed" "alt-right" militias (they wouldn't be armed in a city like portland, and they're just kooks, not alt-right) won't cause trouble, i'm assuming they'll cause less trouble on a defensive footing than antifa on an offensive footing. and i'm also arguing that all the antifa types have done is radicalized the not-alt right even more. cat's out of the bag now, though.

you realize these guys have shown up to events across the country, right? from auburn and nawlins to portland, from new york and boston to anaheim?

sure, they're not beating the shit out of people yet, but it's a matter of time. the cats out of the bag now, thanks to the communist ninjas. 2018 and 2020 are going to be fun, get the popcorn.

That sounds like pure Conservative Republican crack smoking paranoid bullshit. Yeah, the street are going to be overrun with antifa guys with bandanas on their faces, smashing things killing people and screaming about fascism.

Next thing you're going to say is the race war is right around the corner, because Trayvon and all other shit is finally going to come home to roost.

People need to quit engaging their politically apocalyptic masturbation fantasies. That's how we got to Trump in the first goddamn place.

woah, okay. thanks for putting words in my mouth.

i'm not saying it's going to be the end of days, i'm saying it's going to be fun to see the kekistan larpers fight the communist ninjas for control of some shitty public park day in day out.

[Max™]

The antifa thing in Auburn was fantastic, they just mocked them, and yes, as far left as I am, it just goes to show that the enemy of your enemy is not always an ally, sometimes they're just douchey protest-hipsters who want to feel righteous when they break shit.

[Neonivek]

The antifa thing in Auburn was fantastic, they just mocked them, and yes, as far left as I am, it just goes to show that the enemy of your enemy is not always an ally, sometimes they're just douchey protest-hipsters who want to feel righteous when they break shit.

Well... the whole saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" was always meant to be ironic and in some ways duplicitous.

[martinuzz]

hearts and brainzz

[RedKing]

you realize these guys have shown up to events across the country, right? from auburn and nawlins to portland, from new york and boston to anaheim?

sure, they're not beating the shit out of people yet, but it's a matter of time. the cats out of the bag now, thanks to the communist ninjas. 2018 and 2020 are going to be fun, get the popcorn.

That sounds like pure Conservative Republican crack smoking paranoid bullshit. Yeah, the street are going to be overrun with antifa guys with bandanas on their faces, smashing things killing people and screaming about fascism.

Next thing you're going to say is the race war is right around the corner, because Trayvon and all other shit is finally going to come home to roost.

People need to quit engaging their politically apocalyptic masturbation fantasies. That's how we got to Trump in the first goddamn place.

You obviously missed the 1990's, when we had street gangs allied with UN troops and ChiComs to take over America, and we were saved only by hundreds of militias talking about what they'd do and occasionally going deer hunting or playing paintball. 

So it's unfair to assume that armed alt-right militias are going to cause trouble, but it's totes okay to assume that antifa is? Just trying to set the ground rules here.

Showing up and *not* beating the shit out of people is called "peaceful assembly". Ironically, it's the same right that some people are screaming needs to be defended with armed militias.

i'm not assuming that "armed" "alt-right" militias (they wouldn't be armed in a city like portland, and they're just kooks, not alt-right) won't cause trouble, i'm assuming they'll cause less trouble on a defensive footing than antifa on an offensive footing. and i'm also arguing that all the antifa types have done is radicalized the not-alt right even more. cat's out of the bag now, though.

If they're not armed, I fail to see how they're going to be more effective security than an actual security company and/or the police. I mean, shit, even Mall Cops have a nightstick or taser or pepper spray or something.

If they're just there as a "show of force", then that's not security it's intimidation.

[Frumple]

... so can anyone actually find data on stateside political violence? 'Cause I just spent the last hour digging around, and the last numbers specifically tracking that that approached particularly good seem to have ended in '68, with the last period in 2010. Bit more with somewhat more specialized stuff like domestic terrorism and hate/extremist groups (which definitely appears to have a strong lean, politics wise), but not something I'd be willing to cite as signs of any particular trend.

Someone out there happens to know where to find something that's worth a damn, it'd be nice to hear about. Most of the more recent stuff I'm seeing is either biased as all hell or light on actual numbers... and if we know anything, it's that american feelings on crime rates et al are among the gold standards for "shit what is wrong".

[RedKing]

UMd's START database is my go-to for numbers on political violence, and they do have a subset on terrorism and extremist violence in the United States, including a sub-subset on bombing and arson attacks by the ELF and ALF (ecoterrorism).

Unfortunately, their TEVUS database is access by request only.
Fortunately, it doesn't look like it has any cost associated, nor is it a requisite that you be an academic. So if someone wants to sign up and get access to the datasets, feel free and then let us know what you find out. Would be a great side project for a PoliSci major or stats geek.

[Frumple]

Hrm. Pretty sure I actually ran into that one, but kept moving due to the whole access thing. Didn't bother checking to see what registration actually entailed, heh. Got about twenty minutes before I have to haul off for a while, but I'll see what that involves if the time allows and/or I don't forget by the time I get back.

E: Well, request submitted. Email from 'em says the request will be reviewed and responded to within seven days, so... yeah.

[RedKing]

I haven't worked with TEVUS, but I have worked with START in the past. Excellent quality data, they tend to include citations and lots of extentuating information for each incident (as much as they can) so you can decide whether it meets your criteria or not.

I was looking at PKK attacks in Turkey then, but I'd be interested to see this data too, if I had the time to do anything with it.

[Lord Shonus]

extentuating

Do you mean "extenuating", or is this some obscure statistical jargon I'm not familiar with?

[PTTG??]

The internet has earned the destruction of network neutrality. Trump backs out of a climate change agreement simply because he wants to flex his tiny executive prick? Murmurs. Trump misspells a tweet? Infinite bullshit.

[MrRoboto75]

The internet has earned the destruction of network neutrality. Trump backs out of a climate change agreement simply because he wants to flex his tiny executive prick? Murmurs. Trump misspells a tweet? Infinite bullshit.

Elect meme president, get meme prizes.