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[hector13]

And forum survey says: nope. Right to assembly is limited only to the "good guys".

Thanks for your participation.

Where did anyone say that? I think the consensus so far has been "don't hire as security for your political rallies politically-minded paramilitaries that engage in violence to meet their goals".

Way to misrepresent, man.

It may've just been one minor league guy, but the fact he can claim to represent a major political party and think suggesting something like that is okay, in jest or otherwise, is worrying.

[Virtz]

A lot of recent (as in the past two years or so, basically the entire campaign up to now) ones have been, but there have also been clashes between right wingers and left wingers. Trying to argue who started it for every specific incident is going to be fruitless because both sides will say the other started it.

It doesn't help that Trump has been using rhetoric to label all protestors as if all of them are violent.

Of course though, what about incidents outside of 'protestors at a Trump rally'? Protestors and clashes are nothing new.

And yeah, the media has been using the term 'riot' a bit too loosely perhaps.

You accuse Trump of labeling people violent, yet the American left keep calling people who even lean to the right "nazis" (completely invalidly), and then say it's alright to "punch a nazi", even though everyone's too stupid to know or care about the definition of a nazi and just go around justifying being an asshole to people they don't agree with by calling them racists, nazis and bigots. How is that any different?

And this spew of calling people on the right "nazis" this commonly is something new. I don't recall the American left of 10 years ago being this self-righteous and willfully ignorant.

[Strife26]

A viewpoint neutral (y'know, the standard under American jurisprudence and American ideals) says he can hire black panthers for his security. He can hire clowns for his security. He can round up a pack of literal Illinois Nazis for his security. If they're doing nothing but act as security, they're all utterly interchangeable in the eyes of the law. It doesn't and it shouldn't matter how brown or tie dyed their shirts are.

Once "unpopular" individuals and groups are no longer treated equally under our rule of law, we've gone and walked back American society a few decades of hard earned progress. I take poorly those who'd kink back the moral arc of history because they don't have the capability to see past a pair of sunglasses. Looking especially at Portland's jackass of a mayor right now.

[smjjames]

A lot of recent (as in the past two years or so, basically the entire campaign up to now) ones have been, but there have also been clashes between right wingers and left wingers. Trying to argue who started it for every specific incident is going to be fruitless because both sides will say the other started it.

It doesn't help that Trump has been using rhetoric to label all protestors as if all of them are violent.

Of course though, what about incidents outside of 'protestors at a Trump rally'? Protestors and clashes are nothing new.

And yeah, the media has been using the term 'riot' a bit too loosely perhaps.

You accuse Trump of labeling people violent, yet the American left keep calling people who even lean to the right "nazis" (completely invalidly), and then say it's alright to "punch a nazi", even though everyone's too stupid to know or care about the definition of a nazi and just go around justifying being an asshole to people they don't agree with by calling them racists, nazis and bigots. How is that any different?

And this spew of calling people on the right "nazis" this commonly is something new. I don't recall the American left of 10 years ago being this self-righteous and willfully ignorant.

And the Republicans commonly smacktalk liberals/left-wingers as being socialist, among other stuff.

Welcome to hyperpartianship, and yeah, this level of discourse is relatively new.

[Sheb]

A viewpoint neutral (y'know, the standard under American jurisprudence and American ideals) says he can hire black panthers for his security. He can hire clowns for his security. He can round up a pack of literal Illinois Nazis for his security. If they're doing nothing but act as security, they're all utterly interchangeable in the eyes of the law. It doesn't and it shouldn't matter how brown or tie dyed their shirts are.

Once "unpopular" individuals and groups are no longer treated equally under our rule of law, we've gone and walked back American society a few decades of hard earned progress. I take poorly those who'd kink back the moral arc of history because they don't have the capability to see past a pair of sunglasses. Looking especially at Portland's jackass of a mayor right now.

Well, yeah, he can legally do it. And it's worrying if he does, and it's even more worrying if that policy get adopted by the GOP at large, which is the point we were making.

[nenjin]

I don't recall the American left of 10 years ago being this self-righteous and willfully ignorant.

Welcome to hyperpartianship, and yeah, this level of discourse is relatively new.

Libs have been calling Conservative Evangelical Republicans jackbooted fascist thugs since the 70s, and probably earlier. The only thing that has changed now is that it has way more publicity and incidents of stuff happening travel in minutes rather than hours, days or weeks into the political zeitgeist. Which is why you get so much hyperbole and entrenched stupidity, because no one has any time to craft a response before one is expected of them. So they say the dumbest, most visceral thing they're feeling at the moment and, surprise, it turns into a shit storm of low-quality facts, if any, and indefensible positions they now must defend to the death.

Everyone believes what's happening in their era is novel. It's not. The political left and right have always hated each other in America. You think today's discourse is inflammatory? Check out what the left and right were saying about each other up to and during the Civil War.

If they're doing nothing but act as security, they're all utterly interchangeable in the eyes of the law. It doesn't and it shouldn't matter how brown or tie dyed their shirts are.

Now, show of hands. Who actually expects them to act professionally when they're being placed in front of people who politically are their mortal enemies and who are guaranteed to bait them if not outright attack them? The most powerful man in the world goes to a private security firm rather than, I dunno, the secret service, local law enforcement or any of the dozens of not-inflammatory choices at his disposal?

He wants incidents. He wants violence. He wants ugliness. They're fuel for the narrative he's building about why he can't get anything done. Say what you will about freedom of speech, tolerance, whatever......shouting fire in a crowded movie theater is not considered protected speech. And this toes the line, by effectively holding a film festival about arson, daring convicted arsons to show up and then soaking gasoline into the carpet for good measure. And it's even less ethically sound than those "Draw Mohammed" events.

[Dorsidwarf]

The amusing thing is that in Virtz's complaint about the right all being tarred as nazis by "the left" he himself lumps everyone not in his political affilliation into the group of "angry united enemy" in the same way that the vocal idiots on the left do the same with the right. Newsflash: Most people on "the left" don't think people "on the right" are nazis.

The only thing more constant than the polarisation of left and right is the us vs them we have to destroy them they're attacking our way of life mentality in certain groups on both sides.

[Strife26]

The amusing thing is that in Virtz's complaint about the right all being tarred as nazis by "the left" he himself lumps everyone not in his political affilliation into the group of "angry united enemy" in the same way that the vocal idiots on the left do the same with the right. Newsflash: Most people on "the left" don't think people "on the right" are nazis

You wouldn't know it listening to them. Or reading wapo or hanging out on this forum or

If you'd like to pretend one side is less hyperpartisian (which might be a bad word, because the passions are quickly running ahead of the broad, coalition parties that champion them) then that's some impressive strength  kool-aid

[Dorsidwarf]

The amusing thing is that in Virtz's complaint about the right all being tarred as nazis by "the left" he himself lumps everyone not in his political affilliation into the group of "angry united enemy" in the same way that the vocal idiots on the left do the same with the right. Newsflash: Most people on "the left" don't think people "on the right" are nazis

You wouldn't know it listening to them. Or reading wapo or hanging out on this forum or

If you'd like to pretend one side is less hyperpartisian (which might be a bad word, because the passions are quickly running ahead of the broad, coalition parties that champion them) then that's some impressive strength  kool-aid

part 1 of comment: "yeah I guess he has a point"

part 2 of comment: "Oh he didnt actually respond to my comment he just jumped on his soapbox and started screaming retardedly about a vaguely related point"

Addenendum: ooh, "LOL U ARE DRINKING COOLAID" finisher. classy.

Fuck off.

[hector13]

A viewpoint neutral (y'know, the standard under American jurisprudence and American ideals) says he can hire black panthers for his security. He can hire clowns for his security. He can round up a pack of literal Illinois Nazis for his security. If they're doing nothing but act as security, they're all utterly interchangeable in the eyes of the law. It doesn't and it shouldn't matter how brown or tie dyed their shirts are.

Once "unpopular" individuals and groups are no longer treated equally under our rule of law, we've gone and walked back American society a few decades of hard earned progress. I take poorly those who'd kink back the moral arc of history because they don't have the capability to see past a pair of sunglasses. Looking especially at Portland's jackass of a mayor right now.

That's the thing about ideals and philosophy, man. They're lovely on paper but a bit shit when it comes to reality.

If these groups could be trusted to police a rally impartially and within the law, I'd be alright with it, but I find it stupendously unlikely to be what would happen. I'd feel the same way about militant far-left organisations providing security for Democrat political rallies too.

PPE: I feel the need to express that I'm not saying the Republicans are fascist, just that paramilitaries providing security for political parties is fascist. It's worrying for me that someone representing the Republicans, however minor league, however decentralised the part is or whatever, is saying they're thinking about doing it.

PPE2: Perhaps it would be wise to cool off, Dorisdwarf. There's no need for name calling.

[nenjin]

Ya know the last addition to the moderation log other than some unrelated thing was during the Trump victory. Let's not break that trend by forcing anyone to report anyone else because they can't keep the insults in check.

[Dorsidwarf]

Maybe people shouldn't make sneering patronising derogatory posts ignoring what people have actually said to knock down more strawmen if they're liable to be upset by being told to fuck off.

[smjjames]

The amusing thing is that in Virtz's complaint about the right all being tarred as nazis by "the left" he himself lumps everyone not in his political affilliation into the group of "angry united enemy" in the same way that the vocal idiots on the left do the same with the right. Newsflash: Most people on "the left" don't think people "on the right" are nazis

You wouldn't know it listening to them. Or reading wapo or hanging out on this forum or

If you'd like to pretend one side is less hyperpartisian (which might be a bad word, because the passions are quickly running ahead of the broad, coalition parties that champion them) then that's some impressive strength  kool-aid

part 1 of comment: "yeah I guess he has a point"

part 2 of comment: "Oh he didnt actually respond to my comment he just jumped on his soapbox and started screaming retardedly about a vaguely related point"

Addenendum: ooh, "LOL U ARE DRINKING COOLAID" finisher. classy.

Fuck off, shitface

Dude, chill before you get yourself in trouble.

[nenjin]

Maybe people shouldn't make sneering patronising derogatory posts ignoring what people have actually said to knock down more strawmen if they're liable to be upset by being told to fuck off.

It's like you've never posted in a political thread before. This is the game. Note, of the two of you, which was the first to break a rule.

[Dorsidwarf]

Maybe people shouldn't make sneering patronising derogatory posts ignoring what people have actually said to knock down more strawmen if they're liable to be upset by being told to fuck off.

It's like you've never posted in a political thread before. This is the game. Note, of the two of you, which was the first to break a rule.

And here I thought the objective was to discuss political events happening in america, not to be smug and condescending until someone calls you a rude word and go running for an adult.

edit: Note I don't believe he's trolling. I think he's just being a smug bastard.