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[Neonivek]

Neonivek, it's intended to pay back ill-gotten gains. But go watch the John Oliver episode on Civil Forfeiture. Things are never that simple. Cops are rolling random people for cash, without any hint of wrongdoing, then spending it on a bunch crooked perks for the same cops doing the cash-grabbing. All perfectly legally.

I know, you said that earlier and it was interesting stuff. I said I didn't respond to you by saying that I made that mistake.

Though now that I know John Oliver spoke about it, maybe I should watch that. He has a very good way of breaking down things and the greater overall impact.

[Reelya]

For those who don't want to sit through a video, entertaining as it is:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/heres-what-police-bought-with-civil-forfeiture-2014-10?r=US&IR=T

This cites a Washington Post investigation in 2014 which tracked 43000 cases of civil forfeiture amounting to $2.5 billion since 2008, and in 81% of cases there were never any actual charges laid on anyone involved in the cases. Local police who are doing the seizures are reportedly allowed to keep up to 80% of the seized assets to spend at the discretion of their local precinct. Which might involve partying, according to other reports.

[Azzuro]

I advise you not to argue with Neo, he likes to make up meanings for words to support his points.

That was uncalled for... I just never responded because I was like "Ohhh, opps. I thought it was when they take assets and things like that in order to subtract from ill-gotten gains"

I advise you not to argue with Neo, he likes to make up meanings for words to support his points.

You need to cut that shit out right now. I've seen you direct sneers like that at neonivek several times now. It's not okay.

Alright, I'll cut it out when I'm not arguing with him. Although I stand by what I said, Neo, all the time you're not arguing with people, you're arguing past them because your definition of the words is completely different from the commonly-accepted definitions.

Admittedly, I was a little pissed off when I made that post reading your exchange with sluissa. I know nothing about the laws regarding civil forfeiture, stop-and-search, and detention without charge in the US, but I don't go straight to giving people bad legal advice while snidely implying they're fools for getting 'tricked' by the police. Perhaps sluissa should have sued the police department, and lost thousands fighting an obviously unwinnable case? (Although any lawyer with basic decency would inform him that the complaint didn't have any legal grounds to stand on with twenty minutes of reading.) Or perhaps he should have flipped them the bird, told them that they didn't have the right to search or detain him without probable cause/reasonable suspicion (as you first said), and moonwalked back to his car? Spreading this misinformation isn't just rude, it could have actual physical consequences for sluissa if he'd opted for the latter course of action. If you don't know anything about a subject, don't jump straight to giving advice and opinions without reading up first.

[sluissa]

Not to go back into this too much, but basically what Azzuro is saying. By the letter of the law, is Neo correct? Possibly. But beyond my initial decline to have my car searched, I was trying to be as polite and cooperative with them as possible. I gain nothing from being an ass to them and trying any of that dorm room lawyer bullshit on them. Even if I"m legally in my right, they also have plenty of legal ways to make my life miserable for a little while. Ranging from just holding me for a couple of hours on the side of the road, to the 24 hour hold, all the way up to tying me up in court with all the associated court costs. At the time my car was a beater, and while I wouldn't classify it as unsafe or anything like that, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't SOMETHING on there they could have called me on and written me an actual ticket for rather than just letting me go on my way after they spent 5 minutes shuffling through the trash on my floorboard.

For the record, the only reason I even declined that search was because one of my relatives was a cop way back in the 50s. And was associated with in some way or another many crooked cops who would go so far as to plant evidence on people in order to take their stuff. Carried a second throwaway gun on their ankle in case they "had to shoot someone off the record." Real movie stuff. I grew up with these stories, and was always warned at equal amounts, "don't do anything to make a cop hate you" but also "don't let them search without a warrant". Combining those two, making them mad while getting searched, while probably not QUITE as dangerous as back in the 50s, is still a good way to make yourself miserable.

[SalmonGod]

There's always the classic "arrested for resisting arrest".  I'm sure that, in theory, citizens are supposed to have certain rights to resist unlawful orders... but in practice, that doesn't seem to hold up.

[Max™]

I don't know how to explain it without it sounding like some sort of stoner zen proverb, but without actively reminding yourself of it, know that you belong exactly where you are, and people don't question it. Additionally, a police officer should be treated like any other stranger in funny clothes carrying a gun: with polite caution tempered by the awareness that there are situations where this funnily dressed stranger could end up shooting you without serious repercussions on their end, avoid those situations.

[TheBiggerFish]

Civil forfeiture should just be banned flat out. I'd rather drug kingpins get to keep their ill-gotten gains than be robbed by badged highwaymen, and anything less than a ban will be easily subverted. According to that wiki article, even in places where it isn't allowed they sometimes get around it by keeping things as "evidence", refuse to give them back, and sell them after 120 days as unclaimed property.

There's criminal forfeiture for drug kingpins.

Civil forfeiture should go die in a hole.

[Neonivek]

while snidely implying they're fools for getting 'tricked' by the police

Why do people add stuff to what I say?

[Neonivek]

The officer tricked you Sluissa very likely (and made you accidentally agree to being detained)

Tell me, Neo, what did they add?

I am pretty sure, but don't quote me on this, that they differ in a subtle way.

[nenjin]

*chuckles*

[redwallzyl]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/politics/trump-tax-cut-plan.html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/2017/04/26/525742495/trump-administration-proposes-significant-tax-overhaul-and-tax-cut-plan

Oh look, its captain drain the swamp Jesus here to save all the poor suffering millionaires from evil government overreach and taxes.

and while their at it lets just casualy kill NAFTA
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/politics/nafta-executive-order-trump.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article

destroy everyone's health care.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/politics/affordable-care-act-health-republicans.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article

destroy the internet
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/technology/net-neutrality.html?_r=0

and shrink national parks
http://www.npr.org/2017/04/25/525639393/trump-to-sign-executive-order-taking-aim-at-national-monuments

yet somehow these scum are still in office.

[MrRoboto75]

yet somehow these scum are still in office.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[smjjames]

And the Republicans in the House and Senate are saying "No way in hell that is tax reform. How are you going to pay for all of that?". The 'How do you pay for all of that?' is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, problems with the WH proposal.

And of course, Democrats are refusing to work on tax reform until Trump releases his tax returns.

[martinuzz]

yet somehow these scum are still in office.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

well played

[sluissa]

yet somehow these scum are still in office.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks for pulling that meme out... again... How about you look into that bag of yours and find a likable candidate that could run for us last year instead.