Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Frumple]

... yeah, what the hell. If it was something like income tax or somethin' tends to work, where the company is holding the penalty to pass on to the government, it might be understandable? But it does indeed look like it's just a straight up fucking increase to insurance premiums for the affected. I'm actually having trouble expressing words about this without dissolving into a steady stream of vulgarity.

Looks to be in the subtitle B section of the actual text.

[PTTG??]

Healthcare and education in the United States won't be fixed until the Neoliberals are driven from power. And sadly, neoliberalism is the key point of agreement between party Democrats and party Republicans. Worse, the actual liberal progressives want socialism, which works in every other wealthy country, and the conservative activists want crony cartels. So it's kind of a four-way split with the two larger factions willing to pull together so long as it looks like they disagree.

The one bit of light I see here is that now, at least, the distinction between the Democrats and the liberals is growing more clear.

[Sergarr]

socialism, which works in every other wealthy country

Uh, socialism... doesn't work... like, at all. USSR, China, the entire Warsaw Pact... you're thinking of social democracy, which is really, really not the same thing as socialism.

[Neonivek]

So basically the USA is always doomed?

[misko27]

America has been doomed since 1492, when Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

[Starver]

That only happened because someone abolished Pangea!

[Max™]

socialism, which works in every other wealthy country

Uh, socialism... doesn't work... like, at all. USSR, China, the entire Warsaw Pact... you're thinking of social democracy, which is really, really not the same thing as socialism.

Soviet Communism was closer to a state capitalist or command economy, and the USSR was as Socialist as the DPRK is Democratic, don't you live in a former soviet bloc state? Narrowing down "socialism" to "what people in the us called the soviet command economy" depends on broadening the word so far as to lose meaning, and as someone with deep anarchist leanings, to hear the word applied to the ussr or indeed any major world power strikes me with a deep sort of giggle inducing absurdity. Anarchism without socialism devolves rapidly into warlordism, and in general the whole "if men be angels, this be heaven" aspect is why I always like to clarify that I'm a "naive hippie bullshit" anarchist. Nonetheless I am in favor of society moving away from the stranglehold capitalism has on it, and thus find things like the government providing services which it is uniquely well suited to provide--defense, transportation infrastructure, communication infrastructure, standards and regulations, education, healthcare--is always superior to allowing those to fall into the hands of profit-driven monstrosities like corporations.

Socialism in the vein of the highway act, the public development and access to the internet, social security, medicaid/care, and others I've missed, are what made us great. Regressive and inequality increasing tax cuts, attacks on public services, turning the single-payer provision into a bogeyman, and holding capitalism up as some sort of great and moral and broadly beneficial ideal are what damages that greatness, not socialism.

[PTTG??]

socialism, which works in every other wealthy country

Uh, socialism... doesn't work... like, at all. USSR, China, the entire Warsaw Pact... you're thinking of social democracy, which is really, really not the same thing as socialism.

Soviet Communism was closer to a state capitalist or command economy, and the USSR was as Socialist as the DPRK is Democratic, don't you live in a former soviet bloc state? Narrowing down "socialism" to "what people in the us called the soviet command economy" depends on broadening the word so far as to lose meaning, and as someone with deep anarchist leanings, to hear the word applied to the ussr or indeed any major world power strikes me with a deep sort of giggle inducing absurdity. Anarchism without socialism devolves rapidly into warlordism, and in general the whole "if men be angels, this be heaven" aspect is why I always like to clarify that I'm a "naive hippie bullshit" anarchist. Nonetheless I am in favor of society moving away from the stranglehold capitalism has on it, and thus find things like the government providing services which it is uniquely well suited to provide--defense, transportation infrastructure, communication infrastructure, standards and regulations, education, healthcare--is always superior to allowing those to fall into the hands of profit-driven monstrosities like corporations.

Socialism in the vein of the highway act, the public development and access to the internet, social security, medicaid/care, and others I've missed, are what made us great. Regressive and inequality increasing tax cuts, attacks on public services, turning the single-payer provision into a bogeyman, and holding capitalism up as some sort of great and moral and broadly beneficial ideal are what damages that greatness, not socialism.

Thank you. I think you may have clarified my point far better than I could have.

[Sergarr]

socialism, which works in every other wealthy country

-snip-

Let's just say that I don't like your definition of socialism. It's too wide to be useful. In Russia, "socialism" means "USSR's economical system", and "social democracy" aka "Swedish model" means "what Nordic countries use". Clear and concise, most people can understand it without additional explanation.

[Max™]

Learning an at-best overly vague definition--or arguably completely incorrect one--which was only applied in certain places in certain situations and then trying to argue that they're more helpful to people who are not in those places in those situations is kinda silly. Over here we tend to use "communism" and "social democracy" or "Nordic model" as you're using "socialism" and "social democracy" but people who want to express something more than a buzzword like myself are rather partial to the word socialism being used in the right contexts.

People over here, in say, America, discussing American politics, are not going to understand the term if "USSR==Communism==Socialism==Evil Badguys" type equivalencies are used, they just get more confused and need more explanation by people like, say, myself, or even Sanders, when we argue that the US has a toxic level of capitalist influence on government and desperately needs more socialism.

[smjjames]

socialism, which works in every other wealthy country

-snip-

-snip-(I think, this quote pyramid is screwy and I'm trying to fix it)

Let's just say that I don't like your definition of socialism. It's too wide to be useful. In Russia, "socialism" means "USSR's economical system", and "social democracy" aka "Swedish model" means "what Nordic countries use". Clear and concise, most people can understand it without additional explanation.

Blame the Republicans for making it amorphous and meaningless. Like how someone a few pages back said that a plastics industry lobbyist said that food without packaging was 'communist/socialist'. It's become shorthand for 'idea I don't like', like 'heretic' or 'heretical', except far more ambigous.

[Max™]

Arguably I am constantly trying to avoid that trap myself with capitalism, because without finding any benefits to it, I share no common ground with those I am trying to explain why socialism is Not A Bad Thing.

[Greiger]

I have a delivery of a converter that will allow me to hook my Nintendo switch up to my DVI monitor coming.  It was supposed to arrive today but now will be delayed til friday because of some shenanigans in the US Postal Service delaying it out in Arizona.

I can't hook my switch up to my monitor and still get audio without it.
The USPS is delivering the converter.
The USPostal Service is run by the government.
Donald Trump currently runs the government.
Therefore Donald Trump does not want me playing the Nintendo Switch on my computer monitor.
Last I checked Nintendo Manufactures their consoles, or at least the components, in China.
China is close to russia.
Thus it is clear that playing the nintendo switchon a computer monitor will show evidence to donald trump's ties to Russia.

Joking of course.  I hate trump, but I really think news channels need to tone this russia stuff down.  I've just seen another news story talking about some trump associate meeting with russians.  Yes it's clear some shady shit went down, but now they seem to be reporting on contacts that aren't even out of the ordinary.  What I posted up there seems to carry about as much weight as what I'm seeing on tv.

[Max™]

Hmmm, read about Trump having a budget draft which will no doubt serve his expressed claims of protecting Americans from terrorists and drug smugglers by reducing funding to the TSA and Coast Guard to help pay for a wall.

I'm surprised Pence didn't push him to cut Navy funding, you know he's gotta be uncomfortable with them.

[smjjames]

Hmmm, read about Trump having a budget draft which will no doubt serve his expressed claims of protecting Americans from terrorists and drug smugglers by reducing funding to the TSA and Coast Guard to help pay for a wall.

I'm surprised Pence didn't push him to cut Navy funding, you know he's gotta be uncomfortable with them.

And FEMA.

I believe he's said that he is going to do cuts on EVERYTHING, except military stuff and entitlements like Social Security and Medicare.

You sort of get the feeling that he's never had to balance a complicated budget.

"Sen. Lindsey Graham said Wednesday he is ready to subpoena the intelligence agencies for evidence that would prove President Donald Trump's claims that he was wiretapped last year by then-President Barack Obama. " Uh, Sen. Graham, as much as I like you for being anti-Trump, trying to find evidence to confirm your bias NOT the way to go about doing an investigation, scientific or otherwise.