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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4233415 times)

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1290 on: February 07, 2017, 05:14:48 pm »

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checking one's privilege" is directed toward the privileged, not the oppressed

Not the way it is applied... It is actually a very sexist, racist, bigoted, discriminatory term... but not in a way that is obvious.

Because they take one look at you and go "Well, you are white and male... So you must be privileged, and thus you must walk in eggshells in my presence!"... ERR sorry! that person was actually a Gay Cherokee Irish Man, their oppress-o-meter is higher than you.

What it SHOULD mean is "Hey, maybe you should see how many advantages you have before you put people down" and be able to apply to everyone.

It can be used poorly, yes. And the Oppression Olympics are bad. But the second meaning is what I meant - and while it should be able to apply to anyone, it only really affects the privileged (mostly the unaware ones).

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That is, we should not stand and watch as people are oppressed. If I see someone shooting innocent people, I can ethically kill him

Dang if ONLY Ghandi wrote about ethically killing people in self defense... OHH WAIT! he did!

Ghandi wasn't a super pacifist.

You sure? I thought he said that the Jews shouldn't even raise their hands in self-defense against the Nazis.
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
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The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1291 on: February 07, 2017, 05:14:54 pm »

I fast skimmed and somehow thought you were, sorry. Wasn't clear what you were going on about, and I did fast skim it.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1292 on: February 07, 2017, 05:15:52 pm »

Gender thread, dammit.

neonivek ^

Or philosophy thread maybe. Do we have a philosophy thread?

Yes. I made that one too. But this is social stuff, not philosophy.

I fast skimmed and somehow thought you were, sorry. Wasn't clear what you were going on about, and I did fast skim it.

It is social stuff, and gender/sexuality tends to cover social stuff.
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1293 on: February 07, 2017, 05:20:06 pm »

The problem with "Check your Privilege" is that it is a Animal Farm scenario.

There is a set meaning that everyone understands.

But it is used in a way that warps its meaning. If it isn't used universally, like its meaning, then people won't take it universally.

If you wouldn't say it to a homeless man, a disabled person, a LBGT person, or a woman... Then how much does the definition matter if that isn't how it is being used?

Everyone is equal, but perhaps we are the most equal of all.
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1294 on: February 07, 2017, 05:38:49 pm »

Article in the New York Times about the daily life in the White House and some of the power interactions there (might have been posted already, didn't spot it on first glance).
Trump and staff rethink tactics after stumbles
As 'entertaining' as this might seem though, let's not let it distract us from the bigger issues, such as the Besty Devos confirmation. Another decision with the potential to do some real damage, in this case to children.
It was posted (hi!) but it garnered no discussion so no issues.
The problem with "Check your Privilege" is that it is a Animal Farm scenario.
Can there be a Orwellian corollary to Godwin's law?
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There is a set meaning that everyone understands.
[citation needed]
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But it is used in a way that warps its meaning. If it isn't used universally, like its meaning, then people won't take it universally.

If you wouldn't say it to a homeless man, a disabled person, a LBGT person, or a woman... Then how much does the definition matter if that isn't how it is being used?
I don't see how this second statement follows the first. The first is a logical statement consistent with certain philosophies of language. However, the second statement is disconnected. You need to elaborate more, and can't just assume that everyone read through the entire thread to find your train of thought  (especially since you lot won't listen to reason and bring it somewhere else).
Quote
Everyone is equal, but perhaps we are the most equal of all.
No, you see that's a misquote. Everyone reads it as "Some are more equal than others". What was really meant was "misko27 is more equal than others". This was really key to the entire idea you understand, and without it the entire thesis of the book fell apart. There were issues with the publisher where they edited it to the more well-known version due to believing that the average person would not get it, but after conversing with Orwell agreed that it was a far inferior version. However, due to an error, it was already sent into publication by that time, and to edit it would have cost more money than the publisher was willing to pay. It is said that the mistake led to his declining health, and contributed to his death in 1950. With Orwell dead, the publisher had no reason to fix the mistake and chose not to, but in later years often stated his great regret. For what it's worth, misko27 appears in the director's edition. So now here we are.

It is social stuff, and gender/sexuality tends to cover social stuff.
So then why not there...?
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itisnotlogical

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1295 on: February 07, 2017, 05:44:12 pm »

Quote
But it is used in a way that warps its meaning. If it isn't used universally, like its meaning, then people won't take it universally.

If you wouldn't say it to a homeless man, a disabled person, a LBGT person, or a woman... Then how much does the definition matter if that isn't how it is being used?
I don't see how this second statement follows the first. The first is a logical statement consistent with certain philosophies of language. However, the second statement is disconnected. You need to elaborate more, and can't just assume that everyone read through the entire thread to find your train of thought  (especially since you lot won't listen to reason and bring it somewhere else).

I think where he's going is that if you won't apply it to people other than white presumed-straight males, eventually the term or phrase will only apply to them, regardless of what you think or want it to mean.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1296 on: February 07, 2017, 06:47:36 pm »

Quote
But it is used in a way that warps its meaning. If it isn't used universally, like its meaning, then people won't take it universally.

If you wouldn't say it to a homeless man, a disabled person, a LBGT person, or a woman... Then how much does the definition matter if that isn't how it is being used?
I don't see how this second statement follows the first. The first is a logical statement consistent with certain philosophies of language. However, the second statement is disconnected. You need to elaborate more, and can't just assume that everyone read through the entire thread to find your train of thought  (especially since you lot won't listen to reason and bring it somewhere else).

I think where he's going is that if you won't apply it to people other than white presumed-straight males, eventually the term or phrase will only apply to them, regardless of what you think or want it to mean.

Wow... I shouldn't be surprised when someone understands what I mean... but I am always surprised.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1297 on: February 07, 2017, 06:54:53 pm »

Congrats Neo xD

TempAcc

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1298 on: February 07, 2017, 06:59:29 pm »

Thats your greatest achievement on this forum so far, congratulations
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PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1299 on: February 07, 2017, 07:03:32 pm »

Anyone want to defend the DeVos appointment? Anyone want to argue that, somehow, Trump isn't outright nepotistic?

Or that McCain has any dignity left at all?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 07:10:47 pm by PTTG?? »
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muldrake

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1300 on: February 07, 2017, 07:11:30 pm »

Anyone want to defend the DeVos appointment? Anyone want to argue that, somehow, Trump isn't outright nepotistic?

Or that McCain has any dignity left at all?

It's a ludicrous insult, yet another act in this clown show.  Frankly putting Steve Bannon on the National Security Council was an even bigger joke.

I'm sure the clown car isn't empty yet, though.
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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1301 on: February 07, 2017, 07:11:51 pm »

Anyone want to defend the DeVos appointment? Anyone want to argue that, somehow, Trump isn't outright nepotistic?
no, and if she didn't have a massive driveway and guards i would half consider walking down the street and egging her door.
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PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1302 on: February 07, 2017, 07:26:33 pm »

I'm hearing from people in solid red regions being furious about DeVos. I can only hope that people remember this, but then, we still have to deal with gerrymandering.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1303 on: February 07, 2017, 07:28:42 pm »

Anyone want to defend the DeVos appointment? Anyone want to argue that, somehow, Trump isn't outright nepotistic?

Or that McCain has any dignity left at all?

Trump is nepotistic but out of necessity.

They are about the only people he can trust.
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1304 on: February 07, 2017, 07:31:19 pm »

Anyone want to defend the DeVos appointment? Anyone want to argue that, somehow, Trump isn't outright nepotistic?

Or that McCain has any dignity left at all?

Trump is nepotistic but out of necessity.

They are about the only people he can trust.
"Trust" is not the right word to use, given how often we get leaks out of the Trump Administration. "People who are willing to be linked to the Trump Administration" is probably what you are looking for.

edit: on a different topic: this thread was opened less than two weeks ago, and yet has already surpassed the "Non EU-Europe thread" and "Brexit conversation continued" thread. How did it get to 93 pages so fast?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 08:11:28 pm by misko27 »
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