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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4470424 times)

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #405 on: January 31, 2017, 08:12:20 pm »

Lol frumple.

Anyway, the nominee is Neil Gorsuch.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #406 on: January 31, 2017, 08:14:01 pm »

Most of those are political appointments. One can classify State Department staff into "political" and "career" buckets. Political ones are expected to change whenever the administration does.

One of those guys had been with the department for 35 years. It's not just a normal house-cleaning, they've gutted the diplomatic corp of the USA, who are basically the people foreign diploments have existing relationships with.

Getting rid of all the experienced people is what normally happens when you plan to stock a department / business with crooked cronies.

Quote
“As a career diplomat, I experienced many transitions and never saw anything like this dangerous purge of public servants now underway at State,” former ambassador Laura Kennedy tweeted.
...
In the past, the state department has been asked to set up early foreign contacts for an incoming administration. This time however it has been bypassed, and Trump’s immediate circle of Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn, son-in-law Jared Kushner and Reince Priebus are making their own calls. The state department was not asked for help arranging Theresa May’s visit, according to a former official.

Yeah, basically they're sacking the whole lot of those people who have foreign policy experience and replacing them with Breitbart/FOX types. This is basically far worse than what Bush did.

Quote
Countryman’s position was especially sensitive. He was acting as “undersecretary T”, the official required to sign off on US arms sales or security assistance abroad, and the person charged with negotiating, implementing and verifying international arms control agreements and international security.

Yeah, they got rid of a senior diplomat trusted by both sides since the Reagan Administration who was in charge of preventing illicit arms dealing and was expert in anti-proliferation. Basically they can replace him with a war hawk who can e.g. approve of funneling American weapons to rebels groups against e.g. Iran, in an attempt to destabilize Iran.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:21:33 pm by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #407 on: January 31, 2017, 08:20:41 pm »

Most of those are political appointments. One can classify State Department staff into "political" and "career" buckets. Political ones are expected to change whenever the administration does.

One of those guys had been with the department for 35 years. It's not just a normal house-cleaning, they've gutted the diplomatic corp of the USA, who are basically the people foreign diploments have existing relationships with.

Getting rid of all the experienced people is what normally happens when you plan to stock a department / business with crooked cronies.

Quote
“As a career diplomat, I experienced many transitions and never saw anything like this dangerous purge of public servants now underway at State,” former ambassador Laura Kennedy tweeted.
...
In the past, the state department has been asked to set up early foreign contacts for an incoming administration. This time however it has been bypassed, and Trump’s immediate circle of Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn, son-in-law Jared Kushner and Reince Priebus are making their own calls. The state department was not asked for help arranging Theresa May’s visit, according to a former official.

Yeah, basically they're sacking the whole lot of those people who have foreign policy experience and replacing them with Breitbart/FOX types. This is basically far worse than what Bush did.

Are all of them that they are purging, political appointees (which is actually normal) or are they purging career diplomats as well? Just wondering here as I thought it was all political appointees.

Also, what did Bush do?
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #408 on: January 31, 2017, 08:22:14 pm »

They're purging people in the arms control part of State who were doing the job for 35 years.

They are in fact gutting the place of any checks and balances, and replacing the established corp of experts with "who knows what".

What they're basically doing is pulling the guts out so that they can remake the DoS in their image.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:24:39 pm by Reelya »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #409 on: January 31, 2017, 08:23:37 pm »

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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #410 on: January 31, 2017, 08:31:26 pm »

Do we know that's actually what the Trump team is doing with the Department of State? The only purge that I know of were of four people.

Also, AFAIK, that image is sourced from that Medium article that went all conspiracy.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #411 on: January 31, 2017, 08:32:58 pm »

Allegedly part of the problem is positions just straight going unfilled, not even purged.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #412 on: January 31, 2017, 08:48:14 pm »

The State Department dissent cable has reached over a thousand signatures (NYT article).

Given the State Departments culture of dissent, they're going to really clash with the Trump admin.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #413 on: January 31, 2017, 08:59:09 pm »

But those people aren't in the state department any more so calliing it the " State Department dissent cable" is fake news.

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #414 on: January 31, 2017, 09:03:45 pm »

That's what a Trump supporter would say.

* smjjames casts de-bluff

*it is Super Effective!*

*ahem*

On a more serious note, it's funny how the Koch network are worried about populism/authoritarianism, the lobbyist overlords that they are: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/31/populistauthoritarian_strains_worry_koch_network_132949.html

I suppose the Democrats can find allies in politically strange places in these strange times.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 10:04:09 pm by smjjames »
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Dozebôm Lolumzalěs

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #415 on: January 31, 2017, 10:05:58 pm »

That mindset fails when an actually bad person arrives. Yeah, hostility sucks. But guess what? Passively letting authoritarian nationalists take power is also a pretty bad choice.
You also gotta ask why half of America is actively helping authoritarian nationalists take power
Argument from popularity
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Bad, good, my devil is my enemy's angel
No, it's "I'm the one with the gun"!!
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #416 on: January 31, 2017, 10:17:56 pm »

On a more serious note, it's funny how the Koch network are worried about populism/authoritarianism, the lobbyist overlords that they are: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/31/populistauthoritarian_strains_worry_koch_network_132949.html

I should keep up with "This Modern World" because it really cuts through the issues.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, yeah, the GOP could in fact be the victims of their own success at this election. Usually the GOP is an alliance of fiscal conservatives, christian fundamentalists/social conservatives and foreign policy hawks. While TrumpCo has smidgens of all of that, Trump's extreme populism and autocratic tendencies (he thinks like a CEO: he doesn't realize that President isn't the same as a company CEO)  are so far away from the tried and steady policies on all those things that there's likely to be a near civil war inside the Republican party during this term.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 10:41:01 pm by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #417 on: January 31, 2017, 10:44:01 pm »

Doesn't help either that they've been pushing this kind of crazyness for years, so, it's literally a monster of their own creation.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #418 on: January 31, 2017, 10:49:39 pm »

Reminds me of this scene from The Simpsons (15 seconds):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7fUBJXn8JM

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #419 on: January 31, 2017, 10:51:36 pm »

The biggest thing is something else entirely, though all of those will increase the magnitude of the fucked position the GOP will soon be in. One of the clearest trends in American politics is that the party in power only loses confidence, this is almost never defied. Trump won with a low confidence barrier, and he's not at all the kind to slow the decay.

In time, the Democrats may feel that they dodged a bullet by losing this one, Clinton would have been in the exact same position.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.
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