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[LordBaal]

That seems very fair.

[nenjin]

Maybe. Given both of their attitudes, reckless endangerment as an additional charge seems fair too.

Also I think the school administrators are going to catch it too. They literally had both the parents and the shooter in the school on the same day where, after social media posts and informing staff he planned to do something....they let him stay at school after the parents left. It is just patently insane. They should have ejected him from the campus immediately after telling the school what he was going to do. The fact that neither they nor his parents were capable of putting 1:1:1:1 together is mind-boggling. A kid says he's having a mental health crisis, is drawing pictures of shooting people, told the school he was going to shoot people and his parents just bought him his own gun. Like, how the fuck did everyone miss this? His mom even texted him when he got caught looking up ammunition on his phone "LOL, I'm not mad at you. You just need to learn to not get caught."

Shit like that makes me think manslaughter isn't a strong enough charge for them. They willfully ignored the signs and essentially encouraged him until 1 minute to midnight.

[Starver]

Crumbley's parents have each been charged with 4 counts of manslaughter in connection with the shooting.

...apparently, there's now a Fugitive Warrant out for them, after their lawyer has been unable to contact them.

They have apparently previously announced to of the media that they're not fleeing the law, but 'the public'. But you'd have thought they'd have at least told their lawyer their plans (if you can't trust your lawyer, you've got many more problems) if not liased directly with some direct representative of the authorities (even if they couldn't get official protection/relocation assistance).


I'll freely admit that I've not got much sympathy for them, without actually tooling up with a pitchfork and burning brand myself, given the apparent facts[1]. But this isn't helping. Bad decisions on top of the possibly worse first decision...



[1] Including the text from the mother to son after being told by a teacher that he had been looking online for ammunition. To whit: "LOL, I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught." Talk about a responsible parent...

[nenjin]

There's a great way to protect yourself from the public.

Turn yourself in.

If they aren't willing to do that, then I hope they get the exact same kind of "fugitive justice" others in America get from the police.

[LordBaal]

Well it wasn't premeditated by anyone but the kid (that we know off so far) so it seems just technically fitting. If you ask me they deserve to be tied in a mountain and have a eagle eat their livers every day only for it to grow back the next day forever, or for quiet some years, but manslaughter is the most realistic thing we can expect.

Accessory for murder would be good too but I don't know if it's better or worst than manslaughter.

[nenjin]

IIRC accessory to murder is a higher charge than manslaughter.

[LordBaal]

Then it seems more fitting. They facilitated all and had plenty of warning beforehand, and actively chose to let it happen by buying him a gun and then allowing him to stay after he expressed he was going to do something. So yeah, both parents and school personnel seems guilty here. The staff should have actually called the cops the second a kid was saying he was going to do something that day.

Here police is forbidden from some University campuses, the public ones but not high-schools. Do you have anything similar or something that do not allow to call the cops on a public school?

[Starver]

I heard it more as them buying a gun for themselves (though the kid described it as "my new toy"), it was locked up at home in a manner sufficient for the required gun-safety/keeping-out-of-the-hands-of-an-opportunistic-burglar laws, but there is no part of that law preventing access by family members and... well, that happened.

And then when Pops first heard about a school shooting, he drove straight home to check if "his" gun was still where he had stored it (and did not find it).


Noting, this is an assemblage of various facts and maybe 'facts'. It seems to follow logically, no doubt when it comes to trial there'll be evidence that not all of this is as logically true as first thought[1]. Shall we just say that the optics are very bad, currently. Corrective lenses might be provided later.


[1] Yes, like it seems obvious that someone travelling across state lines and arriving with a gun must have brought the gun with him, and as he has no drivers' license he may have been given a lift by his mother... I imagine there'll be contraindicative statements against the above, as well, at some point. I trust to the court to sift the information given to the jury without too much prejudice (or credulity) creeping in.  Right now we're at the whims of the bush-telegraph and I'm open to the possibility that there are not yet enough absolute truths to be known here.

[Frumple]

Here police is forbidden from some University campuses, the public ones but not high-schools. Do you have anything similar or something that do not allow to call the cops on a public school?

ha, it's the exact opposite, there's often police on site at both universities and K-12 schools, and almost always ones on call for throwing kids in jail or beating them in the halls problems

[MrRoboto75]

Here police is forbidden from some University campuses, the public ones but not high-schools. Do you have anything similar or something that do not allow to call the cops on a public school?

High School tends to have a cop/security guy in the building, I presume the intention is to foster some sort of positive relationship to police in the kids as they grow up.  On the flip side is the school to prison pipeline...

Tbh I don't recall if my school's sec guy was armed or not, you really wouldn't see him often.

College campus had its own police jurisdiction, separate but presumably under the city/county cops.  This was essentially an urban college, in the city and frankly down the street from the county judicial center anyways.  Wouldn't surprise me if getting a degree in criminal justice or whatever could get you something in the campus police.

[Vector]

I presume the intention is to foster some sort of positive relationship to police in the kids as they grow up.

The place where I worked that had security, had them there supposedly to prevent school shootings. In practice they mostly kept tabs on whether teachers were late or left campus early.

Normally "resource officers" are on-site in order to "prevent violence" (typically: handcuff kids or physically hurt them for normal, child-like disobedience is what really happens).

[nenjin]

I heard it more as them buying a gun for themselves (though the kid described it as "my new toy"), it was locked up at home in a manner sufficient for the required gun-safety/keeping-out-of-the-hands-of-an-opportunistic-burglar laws, but there is no part of that law preventing access by family members and... well, that happened.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/03/1061190344/michigan-school-shooting-parents-oxford-charged

The parents of Ethan Crumbley purchased the handgun used in Tuesday's shooting at Oxford High School, apparently as a Christmas gift for their son on Black Friday, and stored it improperly, said Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald at a news conference midday Friday.

There is also a tweet from the mom I believe saying the gun was a present for their son.

With all the insane social media posting this kid was doing, there's only two ways I can see this:

1. The parents approved of this kind of behavior. (And as more comes out, they both look like a real pair of winners.) Which makes them culpable.
2. The parents didn't even remotely know their own kid and bought them a 9mm at the age of 15.

#1 seems a hell of a lot more likely than #2. Criminally negligent is what they are at best.

[martinuzz]

Sooo. World War 3 soon?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/russia-ukraine-invasion/2021/12/03/98a3760e-546b-11ec-8769-2f4ecdf7a2ad_story.html

[The_Explorer]

Sooo. World War 3 soon?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/russia-ukraine-invasion/2021/12/03/98a3760e-546b-11ec-8769-2f4ecdf7a2ad_story.html

I watch this thread, and tbh, I stay out of the domestic political stuff. After the last few years, it got me too mad and frustrated, and too much anger/anxiety from it. I don't mind reading about it, but had my fill of talking about it. But as I've said in previous posts, this is definitely the only politics I'm personally interested in, for both because it could really be world war 3, and also have friends and family in china

Which while the article is about russia, if anything starts up...its almost certainly that if russia invades ukraine, china will invade taiwan at the same time. I don't think they are the best of friends, but an enemy of an enemy and all...and they do military practices together. I wouldn't even call china/russia a pseudo-alliance tbh, just a common cause I guess they both have. Either way, it be a rather strategic move for them both to move on their target at the same time.

Those two aside. A lot of wars (smaller domestic wars between nations or inside nations and larger wars) start because of bad economic times. Not all the time obviously, but quite often. Bad economics makes unhappy people. And with the pandemic, and economies inflations going up around the world (not just the US), and overall not a good economic outlook despite what both sides of the news say...the answer to economical issues does in history tend to result in wars of various sizes and scopes. Though often there is other reasons involved too, but a lot of it is economic.

War economy and all plays a big part in boosting economies when economy is bad, at least in history.

[scriver]

Sooo. World War 3 soon?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/russia-ukraine-invasion/2021/12/03/98a3760e-546b-11ec-8769-2f4ecdf7a2ad_story.html

That requires there to be the slightest chance that the US and EU would not just let them invade Ukraine.