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[Persus13]

Damn it, I was working on a Hivemind fake-claim on my own and you had to ruin it by ending the game.

So here's what actually happened. I'm a Hivemind. Tiruin I converted N1. Shakerag got a Kill result on me, but since the dopps killed him before he could do anything about it, we were safe, and Tiruin edited Shakerag's PM into something that would keep me safe from suspicion. The guard claim worked perfectly as it meant I would be protected. I converted TDS N2, and we tried to convert TBF last night, but it failed. I'm actually the one with the shield, we saved the assassin bot so we could claim it failed to kill TBF or Leafsnail in case the last dopp was a Tough one.

If you want to be on the winning team, send me a PM with your best poem glorifying the almighty Hivemind and I'll send a convert your way.

Good Game everyone.

Leafsnail, you were seriously underestimating the cool factor of having an assassin bot.

[Persus13]

Thoughts after reading scum/dead chat

I feel like I'm always suggested as the N1 kill by scum.

The scum chat is about what I expected D2.

DA claiming 4mask was the last scum was hilarious. Dead chat fell way too easily for a lot of the claims made by people.

For instance, Tiruin's hivemind claim was impossible for one simple reason. If doll had been converted like she claimed, he would have shown up as such on death. He was still very much human when he died. All of you could have notice this, but no one pointed it out. Since I was Town, I knew TIruin was up to something, so I PMed her about it instead of posting that in thread though.

[Deus Asmoth]

Yeah, I thought webadict was actually a medium after what he said when Shake died. Or perhaps I just wanted to watch the world burn.

[fillipk]

Okay.

[4maskwolf]

Spoiler: Private Chat conversation about me (click to show/hide)

Let's kill 4maskwolf, he's reasonably active

Damn 4mask and his stupid reasonable chain of thought based on correctly interpreting information

In fact, I'd say it might even be worth you killing 4mask tonight. He'll probably be trying to get you lynched tomorrow.

*reads 4mask's post*

Shit.

We're gonna run out of NKs.

Really like that reasoning from 4mask. Especially given how cavalier and self-serving he's been the rest of the game, NOPEing out on his partner would make sense. Would also explain how he knows it's not true "for any number of possibly mutually-conflicting reasons" and <insert multiple contradictory, but valid, explanations here> which is not just vague, but bullshit in general. What would examples of those reasons/explanations be? "Well, I might have a vengeful guard protecting me, but only if I'm not a PWV, neither of which work if I was abducted last night?" He's straight up lying, essentially, and either knows RattyB didn't visit him for a single reason (his follow result is wrong) or because he's scum trying to distance himself.

I do Like 4Masks reasoning. The only other way to confirm that though is to visit him which is dangerous. Baring any new information by TDS I would like to see a TBF lynch here just in case.

Welp. I honestly lost most of my steam for that day. Let's hope 4mask can swing a win though.

4mask is in deep trouble, but he's well positioned within that trouble. I think he's on the top of doll's kill list, but nobody really suspects him on his own merits, and Leaf's going to tank the lynch for him tomorrow. Assuming he survives that long, which... well.

Decent play (bit lurky), but the game's too much of a mechanical minefield at this point to expect much.

4mask is really making the best of a bad situation. Definitely wanted doll out of the way so he could control the plan.

Yeah, however once TBF and Leaf are shown to be not scum I don't see what he'll do next. Let's assume Webadict survives this night because 4Mask won't risk visiting a war vet. Who gets lynched that day? I'll be surprised if 4Mask wins this.

I-is Tiruin our third party? Or did she mean 4mask is not the killer from a previous night?

This game has gotten weird.

This is an amazing train wreck. I'm actually kind of glad I know 4mask is the real scum, it adds an amazing twist to everyone talking about whether to murder obvdopp Leafsnail or obvdopp TBF first.

If Tiruin really is a HiveMind then I could see 4Mask pulling this off. He could go after Tiruin and then it's down to him and Wubba, Assuming TDS and Persus are cult. No wait I forgot Hector, so it's Hector, 4Mask, and Wubba with Web having claimed third party Dop.

Damn I'm not used to being talked about this much.

Me being scum would have been a great twist, but sadly, it was not to be.  I probably would have played the same in the end there as scum, though, because my only chance was convincing the town against all odds to make a poor decision and go with a plan that gave me a way to win.

I'm gonna compile a post of the PMs I was a part of, gimme a bit.

[Shakerag]

Ok, what the hell was this about then?

Fyi, if I die, the codeword is baroque.

The codeword to what?

Just be on the lookout for that word. You'll understand.

[webadict]

Ok, what the hell was this about then?

Fyi, if I die, the codeword is baroque.

The codeword to what?

Just be on the lookout for that word. You'll understand.

It's the codeword!

[4maskwolf]

Spoiler: PM conversation with me, doll, and wubs (click to show/hide)

Originally I didn't have a good question for you because you're scum with webadict and myself, but now I'm going to ask:
Why didn't I just send this to you and then share it with wuba in the scumchat?
Why are wuba and I doing a tandem routine when we're scum and wouldn't want to be seen as buddying?
Why is there a 20 messages an hour limit on b12?

Hmm, an odd move. You can't expect 4mask to be completely aware of all this, though. We're still trying to figure out who to go after, after all.

Alright, I suppose I'll play along with this little charade here, it might yield something amusing.  At the very least it's a way to occupy my time.
1. As a scumteam, it's proper to keep each other fully in the loop, and that's easier to do in one message than in several.  There's a certain level of convenience to putting him on the PM rather than posting it two different places, plus it allows him to watch the responses in real time (should I choose to include him in the response, which I did) rather than wait for you to relay them.
2. Multiple possible reasons: by drawing attention onto yourselves, you could theoretically conceal me, the third scum team member.  Alternatively, you could be relying on the sheer audaciousness of the move to make people doubt you're scum together and shy away from lynching either of you.  Thirdly, it's possible one of you two is a dopp war vet trying to draw town investigative roles to them to murder them all.
3. Hell if I know, ask Toady.

He gets a solid F. 17% is not good enough.

Gotta keep up, mask.

17% is still better than 0%, I'll take it.

Spoiler: Brief N2 conversation with doll and Tiruin, initial message also sent to TBF (click to show/hide)

So guessing day will start soon and having my previous PM deleted (because sending message when forgetting you logged out before but having its tab open means you lose everything :V), said PM was about more speculation about RattyB--rather than my somewhat pressuring and abrupt statement of 'scumteam didnd't seem to help you more', there's also the hypothesis that this was a planned deflection; given the brevity of the numerous folks afterwards other than a scant few, this may also have been a bussing opportunity (which is probably why I said the need for talk >.> I'm like that when I do stuff then forget then oh right later on at times)

Either way possible scenarios still are presented:
> Bussing RattyB/vice versa
> Unprepared quickpost
++ His post didn't seem like a counterpoint towards possible claims of [my] role that would've asked that question--presuming it as a serious note. A reporter that targeted TBF, and following it up with posts of said nature, would MAYBE have had a better move of obtaining more info for scum, but it could also inasmuch as being a bus is possible until further information is presented.

You may not send personal messages to more than 10 recipient(s) at once.

That, and I can only send to so many
Said PM that was deleted also had flavor u_u Ahh well. There goes added fun for fun's sake.

I'm going to remove Fish from my branch of the conversation chain because I find him, well, fishy, pardon the pun.  Back in my reads post I linked to this post of RattyB's and mentioned that they were buddying really hard with TBF, but I was willing to overlook it because Ratty is new.  However, then we get to RattyB's fakeclaim of reporter, where he said he watched TBF and TBF went nowhere.  TBF promptly denied that was accurate and voted for him, followed by Tiruin's revelation, blah blah blah.

Now, given the tone of RattyB's posts and the way they interacted with TBF, I'm not convinced TBF isn't just a scum who decided to cut their losses and not get caught up in a desperate scheme for survival by one of their allies.  RattyB's claim is really wonky for a variety of reasons, not the least of which because there are simpler and safer claims for a scum to make than reporter.  One of the simpler power role claims would have been agent with a human result on one of the non-scum, a claim that can't be dispproved without further information, since most aliens wouldn't claim to counter that claim and it would be a correct read on a townie.  To fakeclaim reporter, you have to know who targeted who or you're really, really playing with fire, and yet he, without hesitation, claimed reporter and specifically said he followed TBF.  The words at the end of his post were something along the lines of "can someone confirm this?  Please?" which is in and of itself a strange statement since there's no reason to believe that in the one night that someone used a role power on him that specifically proved or dispproved his claim.  So, in all likelihood, he was asking for confirmation from TBF himself: confirmation he had no reason to believe he was getting unless TBF was in communication with him and was on his side.  Since TBF himself stated that RattyB was lying, it is unlikely that the scum team actually had an investigator or reporter who targeted TBF and Ratty decided to use that information for his fakeclaim.

tl;dr: TBF and RattyB have some really strange interactions that make me wonder if TBF's counter of Ratty's claim wasn't a bus to try and disassociate themselves, since not countering his claim could have turned into both of them getting lynched if an outside source (as was the case here) presented additional information.

Why am I saying this?  Because on the off chance that I die in the night I'd like my suspicions to be known, and I'm willing to gamble that there's at least one other townie amongst you two, especially given your previous actions.

Also:
RattyB: While I'm sure you weren't planning on doing so, please don't guard me tonight.  My role isn't important enough to be worth protecting

Also:
RattyB: While I'm sure you weren't planning on doing so, please don't guard me tonight.  My role isn't important enough to be worth protecting and it's unlikely that I've drawn the scum's attention enough for them to kill me anyway.

Scumslip there?
...Like, seriously, I would've felt that was a scumslip until I remembered the roleflips

And yes I'm town :I The only way--for posterity--that I'm mostly leaning town for folks is my degrees of silliness and audacity. I'm a lot more cautious when scum. But that's less a general rule and more on 'Tiruin's word semantics is important and a big tell for her'.

Also I'm not sure of TBF's meta or background--but he's ALWAYS on a phone so there's a degree of brevity usually presented everytime.

Spoiler: N3 conversation with the town power base (read: everyone who wasn't TBF and Leafsnail) (click to show/hide)

Is this where I go to gloat about being right?

Also, Leafsnail may very well be an Advanced Doppelganger.

For this reason... Persus... You might very well be converted tonight. I apologize in advance for your lynch tomorrow if that is the case. It was a pleasure serving with you. You guarded well.

I will be going on Alert tonight, so that I will take Leafsnail down with me, should he attack. I honestly suggest that TBF be told by doll/Tiruin to go on alert as well. 4maskwolf, obviously, you too.

Tiruin, do what you can to survive. I'll let you decide what actions are necessary. I'm not entirely unconvinced about TBF, but I am more sure he's Town than Leaf is. One of the Guards will obviously be guarding you, but I'm gonna be honest... I want both doll and hector13 to guard you. Mostly because I don't trust doll to not do something shady like negotiate with Leafsnail. Because, let's be honest, I'd do it too in his position. Mostly for fun.

Good game, everyone. We have nearly won this--

*And then webadict was the Exterminator*

Lol, nah, but you have to admit that'd be awesome, right? Like, all of a sudden, half the Town blows up, and you all kinda trusted me like suckers? Hahahaha... Ah, man, this isn't as funny without Shakerag to shake his head and call me a bastard.

Leafsnail isn't guaranteed scum yet, web, hold your horses. And why would Leafsnail have a double mindshield if DA was also a dopp? DA either faked the inspect, or told the truth.  Since RattyB carried out the kill, DA likely inspected someone N1.

The whole thing where DA was defending TBF despite getting a Kill result on him N2 was super-suspicious anyway.

Also if the guard conga line goes as plan, wouldn't it be doll who gets converted?

Double Mind Shield? That's a long time ago. Gotta keep up. He doesn't need a double mind shield anymore. DA was scum, but Leafsnail can still be an Advanced Dopp.

If DA was TBF's partner, I don't think he's claim a Kill result on him. Besides... It's Leaf. He's scum. Too suspicious.

So he can be an advanced dopp. So what?

Perhaps you don't fully understand the gravity of an AD. I am unable to explain why that would be a bad thing easily, but the short version is that he can choose someone and make them lose.

It's wonderfully bitter justice, and if it were the case, you could take it one step further and negotiate with him to try and win, if you felt inclined.

I, however, am safe, by virtue of going out guns blazing.

Yo dudes o-o I still don't feel right that Leaf would be the dopp--I am leaning on the implication that the scumteam were not present to give advice to RattyB during his post-claim and am also leaning on the notion that his claim was a response-trigger [like, when you're kinda(?) new and am pressured--I'm also leaning that way because it's from self-experience ._. in the past...] and possibly didn't account for an investigative scientist [which, in that kind of mindset, clears Doll, or makes him an awfully acute scumbuddy ]

That said, from that kind of thinking, I went onto the notion that the scumteam played 'safe'--given Leafsnail's mass PM (hah, we're 9 people left! ), somehow...and non-mechanically, somehow I feel like it would have been a better plan for the doppteam to split up rather than risk a connection. o_O

That and it's also that I kinda sympathize with someone being tired from work and having to post kinda eccentrically. ._. Also me before but yeah. Though I can't get how a no lynch played out--Leaf seems to have lacking detail in parts present.

Advanced Doppelganger
    Visible Role: No Role
    Race: Doppelganger
    Goal: Kill
   Flavor: Doppelgangers kill using their teeth and claws. They generally feast upon the flesh of their victims, and often leave nothing but a pool of blood as evidence
    Rules: An experimental advanced version of the doppelganger. Once per game the advanced doppelganger can Consume and Replace the target for that night. In game terms, the player who was the doppelganger is now out of the game (although he still wins with the dopps), and the player targeted by the advanced dopp becomes a doppelganger. This new form of doppelganger is unstable, however, and cannot have any other abilities. Any abilities possessed by the Consumed character are lost, including Mind Shield. The advanced doppelganger shows up as a normal doppelganger would to all investigative roles. Aliens cannot be Consumed, but the once-per-game limit on the ability is not used up if the Adv. Dopp tries to consume them.

Also I read up the Advanced Dopp and...it's a bit confusing. Doesn't that mean that if one is taken to be its 'consumed' target, then the ORIGINAL player is 'out of the game' (How does that appear in public), and the consumed non-alien player then turns into a doppleganger regardless of their past role? :O [ie Vanilla Mafia]

EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, you know at this point I'd trust you web, and you Persuu :O

But wow that late AYY LMAO HECTOR :I WHAI DID YOU DO DAT.
You could've...added more class.
But I'm partially guilty of slipping in the meme puddle too, I guess. >_>

I, however, am safe, by virtue of going out guns blazing.

But...War vets can't move?

Also I made a response for the general 9 instead of posting it here first :v whoops.

EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, you know at this point I'd trust you web, and you Persuu :O

But wow that late AYY LMAO HECTOR :I WHAI DID YOU DO DAT.
You could've...added more class.
But I'm partially guilty of slipping in the meme puddle too, I guess. >_>

I, however, am safe, by virtue of going out guns blazing.

But...War vets can't move?

Also I made a response for the general 9 instead of posting it here first :v whoops.

If I were truly scum, I'd have voted for Leaf til the very end. But that's WIFOM. I didn't want a tie, so I moved my vote to avoid possible Enchanter shenanigans.

I didn't have time for class. Had to watch the thread closely. I even saw Meph forget to put a role on DA.

And I'm safe because I kill at the same time. This stops War Vets from losing to an Advanced Dopp. This has happened in a previous game. To Vector. Trying to convert me. Hehehehe...

OH wait I sent that Leafsnail reply to you 6, instead of the 9. Oops! x_x [This is what I get for stayingup 30+ hours and just taking a nap at 3pm to wake up and do stuff now at my 11pm. Yay fridays!]

And I'm safe because I kill at the same time. This stops War Vets from losing to an Advanced Dopp. This has happened in a previous game. To Vector. Trying to convert me. Hehehehe...

I miiissss Vectooooor They're awesome and we had a parting PM but that still doesn't let me not miss them :I grumblegrumble

But I do hope the night goes well--given the onset of a ton of guards, and predictions of possible roles left, I somehow feel optimistic about the outcome! \o/
Y'know unless secret surprise exterminator happens with a plasma bomb :V

I've sent my shield to Tiruin. If we're planning on using the assassin bot tonight, I'll just use it to confirm I have it. If not, I'll also send it to Tiruin.

Give it to Tiruin. We got a Dopp. We can save it for later.

Alright, done.

Confirming lack of Hivemind everyone! Unless somehow TDS is a Hivemind and got another alien

I have my gifts~

Sweet. Now activate your scum plans, Tiruin!

But now I'm wondering who to assassin bot :I

Well... you have two choices in my mind. Do you believe in Leaf? Then shoot TBF. If not, shoot Leaf.

Or go rogue and shoot one of the unconfirmeds. Technically, me, doll, and 4mask are unconfirmedish. But it should be easy to nail down with less people.

Shoot a war vet or Leafsnail.

I'm with these guys, use it on one of the war vets or Leafsnail. I'd probably prefer TBF over Leafsnail as a first choice though, seein' as he's been ultra quiet since D2.

Outside of claiming and pondering claiming early on I'm not sure he said anything at all yesterday.

To be fair to TBF, a lot of peopel were pretty quiet D2.

I've gone over the logs and noticed that, while I did single out doll/webadict (who clear each other by their personality and attitude, although I'll lean silly on webadict ), there was also TBF, 4mask, and Leafsnail. [all of the rest non-mentioned are 'cleared' by pattern interaction or claims, like TDS giving quite an AWESOME package with an awesome MiB reference ]

So I'm biased onto Leafsnail because of his work pressure and stuff--but he did have D: choices, but the brevity can be interpreted as either his stress/pressure, or him being true to his dopp-wincon, which goes against my impression--and doubly so in a re-read, that scum played safe post-Ratty B.

I looked for pattern tells and hector was against DA from the start--also clearing him are those really tiny ways in how he says things in my notes. In noting down the TIME wherein RattyB was outed by my tell and the ones posting [time of my VOTE and the time of responses, as the timing is most important to denote when people got ideas by impression], DA was one of the FIRST to hop on and call conciseness/brevity; this is noted in his interactions with other people.
If TBF is a dopp--it was quite planned as a full-on bus, given DA's interactions too. Although seriously I'd love to hear more about him because I just used my assassin bot :V

Leaving out whomever I bopped with my tracking device, AND I got a shield, and I probably have Persus being all Captain Canada at my doorstep and being awesomely heroic, we're...pretty much confidently in the clear o_O

Well, if you don't wanna shoot Leafsnail, who can literally lie about whatever he wants, then shoot TBF. I am not against it.

Come to think of it, Leafnsail is almost guaranteed to be the lynch tomorrow. Shooting him tonight is better than wasting the day tomorrow. If he's scum, we've won, if he doesn't die, we know he's lying, if he's town/third-party, we won't be wasting a day tomorrow.

Spoiler: Short PM chain from Leafsnail to everyone alive during N3 (click to show/hide)

This is the correspondence I had with DA. I'm sharing it since his comments on TBF could be useful for reads going forwards, and the doppelgangers already had access to this conversation anyway.

Hi Leafsnail. I know you're either an Enchanter or Survivor. I'd rather not risk lynching an Enchanter, but I'd also prefer not to leave a Survivor alive. Which are you and why should I believe what you tell me?

If you're claiming to be a Telepath there's another possibility you're overlooking - Townie. I am not a Survivor.

It's up to you whether you believe me or not based on my play (I think claiming Kook as Survivor would be a very weird move though), but your inspection mostly clears me of being a doppelganger so I am likely to be town and at worst not as bad as scum from your perspective. Going after me rather than potential dopps would be foolish.

Hi Leafsnail. I know you're either an Enchanter or Survivor. I'd rather not risk lynching an Enchanter, but I'd also prefer not to leave a Survivor alive. Which are you and why should I believe what you tell me?

If you're claiming to be a Telepath there's another possibility you're overlooking - Townie. I am not a Survivor.

It's up to you whether you believe me or not based on my play (I think claiming Kook as Survivor would be a very weird move though), but your inspection mostly clears me of being a doppelganger so I am likely to be town and at worst not as bad as scum from your perspective. Going after me rather than potential dopps would be foolish.

Is there a reason you never responded to this yesterday? Also, will you share your night two result with me, since you've already essentially claimed and got a non-scum result on me?

As far as I could tell there wasn't really much else you wanted to discuss at the time. Outing you in the thread would be pointless, and there wasn't really much else that could be done to narrow your role down from my point of view.

Since even if you are a survivor it looks like it's in your best interest to side with the town at the moment: TBF has a kill goal. Given his reaction to Ratty, I'm guessing that means he's a Vet, but given that he seems to be considering claiming I want to see if his claim matches that goal.

I agree that TBF being a Vet is a strong possibility. The scum may have learned about his lack of action from something like a tracking bot, with RattyB using that information to make his claim. It would also be good to wait and see if TBF claims on his own though, if he's scum he could claim a non-killing role and thus be outed. If he doesn't I guess he should be forced to before the end of the day (maybe by me).

The only possibilities I can think of, assuming he's a Vet, are another scientist with tracking devices, or that Tiruin is really playing against her meta. If he isn't we'll know that when he claims anyway.

Gotta admit, Leaf. You DID say we could lynch you when he came up scum...

I wanna see how you push back tomorrow's lynch on you.

The only modifications made to these were the removal of unnecessary quote nesting, since placing them in chronological order makes them easy enough to understand.

[Shakerag]

It's the codeword!

The. Codeword. To. What. You. Twunt.  >_>

[Tiruin]

Wooooo (~'u')~ Wins!

But I have work and can't read everything that had happened or was posted :I

But it is a satisfying and wonderful imagery that you set in the PM post-game, Meph. XD
"Doll protects Shakerag"
"Hector protects Doll"
Now I've imagery of a light snowstorm with both guards being awesomely garbed and sneaky spying out Shakerag's modest wooden cabin and being all 'mysterious guard person' like.

[hector13]

Least he could've done was bring out some of that coffee.

Ungrateful bastard.

[webadict]

It's the codeword!

The. Codeword. To. What. You. Twunt.  >_>

If you don't know what it's for, why do we even HAVE a codeword?!

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, why would anybody fake claim hive mind as town?

[webadict]

Okay, why would anybody fake claim hive mind as town?

There were a lot of weird things at the end. Just drown them out.

[TheBiggerFish]

Okay, why would anybody fake claim hive mind as town?

There were a lot of weird things at the end. Just drown them out.

Ask Tiruin?