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[bloop_bleep]

FWIW, Taffer, I've been thinking of taking a crack at other animalmen, so I may be able to save you some work. I wanted to add Crab Men to the Better Bugmen mod, but as far as I can tell spawning civs in ocean biomes doesn't make beach towns like it ought to.

The biggest issue is that there's only a few non-magical avenues to spice up animalmen; venoms, interactions, and NATURAL_SKILL, plus things like AMPHIBIOUS. I'm ambivalent about [FLIER] because it's so absurdly broken, and I can't find any way to cleanly implement temporary flight without a lot of work involving transformations, and multiplying that work across tons of birdmen is likely to be a right pain. It also appears to be impossible to make herbivores, except perhaps with a meat nausea syndrome affecting CREATURE_CLASS:HERBIVORE.  It may be more valuable to excise the coolest animalmen and promote them to civ status, possibly even making lots of non-hostile/non-trading types that you can provoke through raiding if you want.

 If I do a second pack, it'll probably be reptiles - there's a lot to work with there. Alligator/Anaconda men with NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING, Snake Man venoms, Chameleon stealth, Axlotl/frog regeneration... we'll see where that goes.

I'd absolutely love an animal people special abilities pack -- something interesting for every animal person race.

[Lenny Zicree]

Hey person behind this awesome pack, please don't do possibly irreparable harm to your pack by transforming the leathers manually. as you pointed out, the changes would be invasive and it would be a nightmare to maintain by hand.

so please ponder and post a before/after example and let someone else come up with a text-processing script that can make a simplified version from a 'hinted' full version. you've done some great work, don't ruin it!

with a little extra markup to what you have, you may only need a short make/awk script to prune and transform this gem!   ... see if you can write up/pull-out simple examples for all the before/after places and post it here so people can see what kind of magic you need for this!

[Taffer]

The next version is really shaping up. It fixes some bugs currently present in Revised, pulls in almost all of the Modest Mod's fixes, and includes many contributions from Warlord. I'll be reviewing Wanderer for combat improvements that I missed, and punting simplified and tiered leather to another release.

Underrated minor fix: no more blue vomit when you're using some color schemes.

Hey person behind this awesome pack, please don't do possibly irreparable harm to your pack by transforming the leathers manually. as you pointed out, the changes would be invasive and it would be a nightmare to maintain by hand.

so please ponder and post a before/after example and let someone else come up with a text-processing script that can make a simplified version from a 'hinted' full version. you've done some great work, don't ruin it!

with a little extra markup to what you have, you may only need a short make/awk script to prune and transform this gem!   ... see if you can write up/pull-out simple examples for all the before/after places and post it here so people can see what kind of magic you need for this!

So I confess that ultimately, I'll still go ahead with tiered leather, and I won't offer an extra. Tiered leather is fun to me, and this has been a lot of work for a project that isn't fun. Please let me know if you do still play with Revised after I integrate it.

I'll make a separate release and, therefore, a separate tag in the repository for tiered and simplified leather. The only changes in that release will be the big leather switch, and then you'll be able to see every difference easily. I sometimes delete old tags to clean them up, but I won't delete those two. I'lll try to do the same with other big changes. It's not much, but hopefully that's preferable!

[Nahere]

Is there any particular reason tiered leather requires simplified leather? RotMK uses various material templates to have tiered leather without reducing variety.

[Taffer]

Is there any particular reason tiered leather requires simplified leather? RotMK uses various material templates to have tiered leather without reducing variety.

Partly because I like simplified leather, and partly because "giant bat leather pants" is already a mouthful. "Giant bat tough leather pants" is worse. I'm exhausted and a little burned out at the moment, so I might try to get a bugfixing release out in the next week and just work on descriptions or something less controversial for a bit.

[CarpBiter2000]

Well, I should warn you: the leather changes are invasive, and not trivial to change back.

Knowing myself, I'll probably end up renaming one of the tiers into "giant bat" and calling it a day.

Partly because I like simplified leather, and partly because "giant bat leather pants" is already a mouthful. "Giant bat tough leather pants" is worse. I'm exhausted and a little burned out at the moment, so I might try to get a bugfixing release out in the next week and just work on descriptions or something less controversial for a bit.

Here, let me lend you a hand.

Right now, you, as a player, always want to make a layer of leather armor to wear underneath the metal as to protect from blunt impacts. The source of the leather doesn't matter: pig and cat leather are as good as dragonhide and batsuits, even if they're not as stylish.
What tiered simplified leather you get:
1. Actual difference between various kinds of leather
2. Clean manager screen
3. Clean stocks screen
4. Clean trade screen

Overall, it makes things much easier to manage by avoiding unnecessary name bloating, which fits nicely into "revised" design philosophy.

[Ryga_]

Heyo, been updating my personal mod from 43.xx to the latest release and swapping over to this from Modest Mod as a base. I already submitted one merge request after finding a missing tag and spelling error so far, but just wanted to post here in case I'm not submitting them correctly or something since I'm not used to using git. I'll submit more merges if I catch any other minor errors. Really love all the new creature descriptions. I'm reworking my Prefstring additions to fit your descriptions better atm, and will post them when I'm finished if you're interested. I'm only about a third of the way through doing research on each creature though

Thanks for your work and everything!

[Taffer]

Heyo, been updating my personal mod from 43.xx to the latest release and swapping over to this from Modest Mod as a base. I already submitted one merge request after finding a missing tag and spelling error so far, but just wanted to post here in case I'm not submitting them correctly or something since I'm not used to using git. I'll submit more merges if I catch any other minor errors. Really love all the new creature descriptions. I'm reworking my Prefstring additions to fit your descriptions better atm, and will post them when I'm finished if you're interested. I'm only about a third of the way through doing research on each creature though

Thanks for your work and everything!

Thank you for the contributions! I merged them all except for the giant mantis change: I left a comment explaining why. The repository is in a bit of an unfinished state at the moment, as its between releases. You can use the tag system to see the repository for the current release, if you prefer.

I'm interested in more prefstrings, yes! Let me know when you're done!

[Lenny Zicree]

Please let me know if you do still play with Revised after I integrate it.

Taffer thanks for the question. I've been playing df for 10 years, transferring small amounts totaling in the low three digits for 7. In this time i've humored the brothers disregard for quality, naively assuming that they would realize the stresses created by the various stung together sims and pay as much attention to my concerns about playability as i did to their creation.

That's never happened. And while -- yes, i have a now 5 yr fort started with your pack -- diff'd against the raws and merged with my own tweaks; today i bought rimworld and stopped the monthly transfers.

Maybe one day df will export the memory layouts automatically, recognizing that he's wasting hours upon hours of people most invested in his work with every release. Maybe he will make the cursors stable and stop punishing players at every turn. But i don't think so.  They want to do a magic system. I don't care about that. I never cared about mine-carts, I don't care about the punishment that is attempting to switch back and forth between fort and adventure mode.

And i don't care about what you choose to do with the leathers. You add a lot of extra value and of course I would play/use it. I've played all the big packs including nano-fort or whatever it was called. You guys are heroes for working completely unsupported by the people that can't seem to pick up dropped food without 3rd party help.

So, hmm. I realized today that i can no longer enjoy df. Its all a bunch of workarounds and compromises for me now. Years ago, still in my 50s then, I thought they'd get around to playing their own game, and being smart enough to notice, would naturally make it easy to play, be pro-active in supporting their 3rd party, all the good stuff that non-alcoholic dwarves proud of their craftsmanship would do.

Its clear that I was wrong and i'm going to do rimworld in between projects rather than df just because the stress induced there feels positive rather than negative to me.

ymmv.

it didn't help that i could not make soap from tallow in your mod until i cheated i a bar. or that an iron cage would trigger rejection by the elf traders. but hey, what's another sharp inhale after all this frustration i've already been through on this year's encounter with df.

all the best to you. enjoyed your work (and that of all the 3rd party!)

[Taffer]

it didn't help that i could not make soap from tallow in your mod until i cheated i a bar.

Sorry about that! That should be fixed already in the current version of Revised, as I already removed Microreduce (the culprit). Thank you for the bug report and for the thanks!

[Encrtia]

I know it's stated in the first post as follows:

Install into a v0.44.09 installation. If you have a saved world, delete it.

But just to be crystal clear, if I have a world that hasn't been modded at all, can I install it & run the world without restarting?

[Taffer]

I know it's stated in the first post as follows:

...

But just to be crystal clear, if I have a world that hasn't been modded at all, can I install it & run the world without restarting?

If you have a saved world, delete it. Even a vanilla one.

That being said, I expect to have a new release out this weekend sometime, so you might want to hold off a little.

[Encrtia]

That's a shame. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Llamageddon]

So I assume (probably bleeding obvious) if I want to use your soon to be updated Revised then I am best to wait till that release as it will totally mess things up if I install it later and use it on an already generated world? I really like this mod because it doesn't dramatically change the vanilla DF experience, just makes it better.

I never actually play DF as I am always waiting for Toady's next release or an update to something like this.

On a vaguely related note, do you think you are on track to get a new release out in the next day or so? Sounds like you have some great stuff lined up. Sorry to nag, it just shows how much your work is valued.

[Taffer]

That's a shame. Thanks for the heads-up!

So I assume (probably bleeding obvious) if I want to use your soon to be updated Revised then I am best to wait till that release as it will totally mess things up if I install it later and use it on an already generated world? I really like this mod because it doesn't dramatically change the vanilla DF experience, just makes it better.

I never actually play DF as I am always waiting for Toady's next release or an update to something like this.

On a vaguely related note, do you think you are on track to get a new release out in the next day or so? Sounds like you have some great stuff lined up. Sorry to nag, it just shows how much your work is valued.

Apologies: my update won't be out this weekend after all, and yes, it will require a new world.

That being said, why not try Adventure mode for a bit? Generate a small world and explore a bit. You can get plenty done in a few days, and probably won't feel as bad deleting it.

In a few months Toady will settle into the long work for the next update, and I'll likely have finished my todo list for Revised by then: there'll be plenty of time to play without interruption then.