Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fleeting Frames]

@GhostDwemer: You have yet to mention in what version are you testing. You are doing these tests on 42.06, right?

EDIT:

Here's a dizzy poet after just 1 serving of rum:



And in a little while - 3 days, as you can see - I notice they've stopped serving him. Looking around for why, I find he's dead in food stockpile. notice that the kimberlite mug is forbidden, thus meaning that he died holding it, without a combat report (which would have red C indicator).



Here's the save. 42.06. It only took 9 days from embark to arrive at this point.

Of course, the dead poet in front of me and all the other dead in taverns must be simply rumors, right? *sarcasm*

Hence asking for what version you're playing on, that you get no deaths.

[Lebo]

It's not a rumor. I've had plenty of drunk casualties, finest of craftsmen found dead in a pile of their own vomit, and the occasional brawl. One left a carpenter without any teeth, other left a goblin entertainer dead due to a cracked skull, torn brain.

Since the tendency to overindulge and cause trouble is because of character traits as far as I understand, I guess you can easily have forts where the majority of people are just too set in the standard decent behavior and the extreme cases just don't get the chance to appear that much.

I also recall that when brawls happen, there aren't any combat reports for them, so you might have had a few bruised muscles and missed 'em.

[PatrikLundell]

Since I've seen several alcohol induced deaths in my taverns, as well as the occasional lethal "non lethal" brawl, I maintain the issue is/was real. Since I play dead civs I can't afford to lose dorfs to things like that, and have thus made sure I don't appoint any poisoners. If Toady has silently toned down the effects in later releases I can't tell, since I've turned the feature off.

While it happened I tried to identify what trait would cause dorfs to die, but failed. I used DT to freeze the dorf states so I could go back and check what stats a dead dorf had, but I failed to identify any stat that ought to be responsible, unless average is considered "incredibly low".

As far as I know, injury from alcohol abuse comes from lung damage as a result of suffocation, so the victim has to go unconscious for damage to occur. Most of the time they recover and stagger off, but poisoners have a habit of running up do a vomit covered dorf that's just managed to rise from the floor and push a new goblet of booze down the throat. Rather that spreading the serving, they tended to pick on the same target again and again.

For effective poisoning, the tavern should have more goblets allocated to it than there are poisoners, the booze stockpile should be inside the tavern, and the number of guests shouldn't outnumber the poisoners too much: I'd say 1:5 - 1:10. I've never had more than one poisoner working though (in my first attempt I had a tavern keeper and a performer, and the performer poisoned guests while the tavern keeper spent years on a prayer bender instead of working).

And finally: GhostDwemer, if you read the forums you'd see essentially the same posts repeated every so often: "There's a dead dorf in the tavern! Do I have a vampire?" and "There's a dead dorf in the tavern after a fight, but the justice doesn't register a crime!"

[Infinityforce]

I've had deaths due to both drinking and fights in taverns, a version or two ago. For that reason, I no longer stock alcohol there.
I guess it does happen occasionally, but I'm sure it's a matter of personality/physical traits and luck.
Like, if you had a bartender with Great Focus, and he's all like "MUST SERVE ALCOHOL" all the time, dwarves would get dead-drunk more often (maybe).

[StruckDown]

I had trouble with brawling and alcohol poisoning to a lesser extent in my taverns. I think all of the brawls I saw involved visitors/long-term residents. Maybe the differences in civ values caused them to brawl with my dwarves. I think values are randomized now, so you might be more or less prone to brawls depending on civs specific to your world.

[Broseph Stalin]

Definitely not false rumors. Not everybody gets into tavern fights but when they do they do it often. I've personally witnessed the same people get into fights over and over and over.

[GhostDwemer]

Okay, so maybe it is real. I'm still not seeing it. What actually causes the effect? Does it only happen to dwarves that have low resistance, and are prone to fighting? Does one need multiple tavern keepers? It's definitely not a certain thing, there is more to it than just setting up a tavern, putting booze and cups in it, and nominating a tavern keeper.

[Broseph Stalin]

Okay, so maybe it is real. I'm still not seeing it. What actually causes the effect? Does it only happen to dwarves that have low resistance, and are prone to fighting? Does one need multiple tavern keepers? It's definitely not a certain thing, there is more to it than just setting up a tavern, putting booze and cups in it, and nominating a tavern keeper.

Tavern, Keeper, Booze, and Cups seems to be all the player has to do. The rest of it is chance and most likely stats and personality traits. I know I've had dwarves and visitors be fine for months and maybe years that died of alcohol poisoning so I'm guessing there's a good deal of chance in it too.

edit: You could always do some ‼Science‼ on the subject.
doubleedit: The science was not on fire.

[Silverthrone]

I don't see it very often, either. Far too seldom, actually. I mean, if this ain't dwarfy, I don't know what is. It's one of the few amusing little death traps the game still got, and it just fits so well. I'm going to be an unhappy man when it gets patched out.

[Infinityforce]

Try running a fort really badly and keep a tavern. I'm sure some of your dwarves will try to kill each other/themselves there eventually.

[Somebodyelse]

How many idlers do you have?

I've found that busy dwarves rarely visit the tavern or don't hang out in it long enough for bad things to happen. Once work orders and things to do dry up, my taverns turn into murder city.

Bare in mind this is all experience from when tavern were first introduced. Since then I don't assign tavern keepers to stop this kind of thing from happening.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Alcohol poisoning and bar fights were a major part of the Taverns release and mentioned many times by Toady. It's not a 'forum rumour'.

On the other hand, 'alcohol poisoning is OP and hiring a tavern keeper guarantees that all your dorfs will die' is an unsubstantiated rumour, spread mostly by one single poster whenever the subject comes up.

Personally always have tavern keepers, very rarely do dorfs die (though the occasional one does). My dorfs fight just as much in the library as at the tavern.

[GhostDwemer]

Alcohol poisoning and bar fights were a major part of the Taverns release and mentioned many times by Toady. It's not a 'forum rumour'.

On the other hand, 'alcohol poisoning is OP and hiring a tavern keeper guarantees that all your dorfs will die' is an unsubstantiated rumour, spread mostly by one single poster whenever the subject comes up.

Personally always have tavern keepers, very rarely do dorfs die (though the occasional one does). My dorfs fight just as much in the library as at the tavern.

Oh, I'm not disputing the game mechanic is there. I'm just disputing that barfights and alcohol poisoning are a common thing that happens every time you hire a tavern keeper. I posted a "returning player, what should I know?" type thread and got hit with the unsubstantiated rumor. I held off hiring a tavern keeper for weeks because I thought it was true. Then I got bored with my fort and thought it would be a great way to start some fun, but guess what? Hiring a tavern keeper doesn't really do much of anything.

[GhostDwemer]

How many idlers do you have?

I've found that busy dwarves rarely visit the tavern or don't hang out in it long enough for bad things to happen. Once work orders and things to do dry up, my taverns turn into murder city.

Bare in mind this is all experience from when tavern were first introduced. Since then I don't assign tavern keepers to stop this kind of thing from happening.

Aha! This must be the reason. I always do megaprojects and if a dwarf isn't doing upkeep, making trade goods, building the megaproject or making arms and armor, that dwarf is in the military. I rarely have any idlers. I do have a lot of visitors, but I tend to have many temples and libraries, so they don't spend all their time in the tavern. I suspect now that bar fights and alcohol poisoning only occur in forts where there is nothing else to do but get drunk.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Alcohol poisoning and bar fights were a major part of the Taverns release and mentioned many times by Toady. It's not a 'forum rumour'.

On the other hand, 'alcohol poisoning is OP and hiring a tavern keeper guarantees that all your dorfs will die' is an unsubstantiated rumour, spread mostly by one single poster whenever the subject comes up.

Personally always have tavern keepers, very rarely do dorfs die (though the occasional one does). My dorfs fight just as much in the library as at the tavern.

Oh, I'm not disputing the game mechanic is there. I'm just disputing that barfights and alcohol poisoning are a common thing that happens every time you hire a tavern keeper. I posted a "returning player, what should I know?" type thread and got hit with the unsubstantiated rumor. I held off hiring a tavern keeper for weeks because I thought it was true. Then I got bored with my fort and thought it would be a great way to start some fun, but guess what? Hiring a tavern keeper doesn't really do much of anything.

Yeah, I think like with a lot things in DF (crossbow squads come to mind), you're better off playing the game how it's meant to be played until you're sure something really is broken before searching for workarounds.

Pretty much everything written is out of date, and even if it's written recently, you can't be sure the writer wasn't using an old version (everyone using the Starter Pack/DFhack) or generated a world in an old version, or is basing their Science on a one particular world's freaky rng.