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Author Topic: Hello, I have questions.  (Read 13572 times)

Werdna

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2016, 10:37:50 am »

Use blocks instead, it vastly speeds things up, no wheelbarrows needed.  A stone can be turned into 4 blocks at a Mason's shop (use (d)etails to specify which stone you want to make into blocks, if that matters to you).  Then when you construct a wall or whatever, specify the stone blocks.  They're immensely easier/faster for the dwarves to carry.  To make things go even faster, pre-position a block stockpile near the construction area.  Blocks can be stacked in bins.  Blocks are so much easier to use that when I designate an area to mine, I immediately plop down a couple Mason workshops right there in the mine, and put "Construct stone block" on repeat.  You may need to add Mason to the labors of a few more dwarves to make this work efficiently (I have a separate Mason workshop, set to be used only by my best mason, for furniture and the like).

If you want to use stones, then I find the quickest method is to pre-position a Stone stockpile very close to the construction.  The problem with wheelbarrows is that while they are immensely faster, a stockpile will only be "worked" by one dwarf per wheelbarrow.  A stockpile with no wheelbarrows will be worked by as many dwarves are available - so if you have the manpower, it's sometimes faster to have 30 dwarves stumbling under the load of 30 stones, than it is to have 3 dwarves zipping around with 3 wheelbarrows. 
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 11:52:47 am by Werdna »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2016, 11:10:39 am »

I got the office but I had no idea there was a setting for accuracy!  Thank you so much!

Is there a way to tell builders to use wheelbarrows to bring stone to their construction rather than go so slow?
As Werdna said: No.

Due to the bin access' poor implementation, I'd only use bins if I was absolutely sure they would get filled at one time and emptied at another, never both at the same time (before the jobs rewrite I had builders chasing haulers who hauled away the bins containing the blocks designated for usage, as the hauler intended to add additional blocks to the bin when blocks had been removed from it so it was no longer full. That scene won't be repeated, I think, but you'd run the risk of job suspension or cancellation due to multiple concurrent bin accesses).
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GhostDwemer

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2016, 11:12:11 am »

Regular rock walls are terrible. Never use them. Use blocks. Enemies can climb up rough stone walls much easier than smooth block walls. Plus, you get four blocks per stone, blocks weigh much less, and the actual construction time when using blocks, regardless of hauling time, is much less.
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Werdna

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2016, 12:00:38 pm »

Regular rock walls are terrible. Never use them. Use blocks. Enemies can climb up rough stone walls much easier than smooth block walls. Plus, you get four blocks per stone, blocks weigh much less, and the actual construction time when using blocks, regardless of hauling time, is much less.

Well, I wouldn't say never.  If the stone is lying a few squares away and I'm just looking to seal off an unused tunnel or a hole poked into a cavern, I don't hesitate to use stone. 

For a "project" though, I agree, never use it, blocks are faster and better in every way.  Good point Patrick on the bins, I forgot about that hassle. 

To be clearer on wheelbarrows - they're only used to bring material to a stockpile, not from.
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JimmyAgent007

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2016, 12:03:51 pm »

...and now I need to tear down a whole LOT of walls, do I get the stone back?

Glad I got told this before I got too far.  Going to make a lot of blocks then.
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Werdna

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2016, 12:23:40 pm »

Yes, you will.  Tearing down a wall however takes much longer than building it, funny enough, and it will bring out your children since it is a job they can do, so watch out for kidnappers (they're safe enough as part of a group of dwarves taking down a wall; just keep it in mind when deconstructing single things at a time outdoors).

Edit: I can't think of any examples where deconstructing something doesn't recover the original build materials, except maybe farm plots and planted seeds since they're added in after it's built?  The build materials will lie in a pile at the foot of the dwarf doing the decon, so you don't need to worry about bricks falling if you're deconstructing say flooring hanging out over space.  You do need to worry about "cave-in" scenarios though, so while the floor a dwarf decon's is not going to fall, it may cause the unsupported floor attached to it to fall if it has no other attach points.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:42:44 pm by Werdna »
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JimmyAgent007

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2016, 12:54:09 pm »

OK good, now for cave ins, will it happen at a distance from support or does it just need to be connected to 'something' as long as its not freely floating?  Can a single rock wall hold up a mountain?
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Werdna

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2016, 01:03:58 pm »

OK good, now for cave ins, will it happen at a distance from support or does it just need to be connected to 'something' as long as its not freely floating?  Can a single rock wall hold up a mountain?

Yes, if you can trace a single chain of connection from the Build->Construction (wall, floor, stairs, fortification) menu to the ground, it'll stay up.  Some other items in the top Build menu also count as support (like supports, of course, but not bridges, doors, floodgates, etc).  Weight has no "bearing", haha.  The problem comes when you are mass-designating an area to deconstruct - assume the dwarves will carry it out in the worst-case scenario.  A falling construction, even just a tile falling one z-level, is like a hand grenade going off.  It can easily fling dwarves off of structures or slam them into walls. 

Wiki: cave-ins
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 01:07:11 pm by Werdna »
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JimmyAgent007

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2016, 01:14:54 pm »

good to know, ive got a lot of sandstone but the walls look like wood so i dont want to use them, been using jet since its the 2nd most common but dont have so much of it, blocks sound like a way to make it last longer.  unless there is a better use for jet?
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2016, 01:28:35 pm »

The only remarkable properties of jet are:

1. Cool black colour, while not difficult to get (like obsidian)
2. Very lightweight; lightest stone. Good for stone pots.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2016, 01:32:43 pm »

Use blocks instead, it vastly speeds things up, no wheelbarrows needed.  A stone can be turned into 4 blocks at a Mason's shop (use (d)etails to specify which stone you want to make into blocks, if that matters to you).  Then when you construct a wall or whatever, specify the stone blocks.  They're immensely easier/faster for the dwarves to carry.  To make things go even faster, pre-position a block stockpile near the construction area.  Blocks can be stacked in bins.  Blocks are so much easier to use that when I designate an area to mine, I immediately plop down a couple Mason workshops right there in the mine, and put "Construct stone block" on repeat.  You may need to add Mason to the labors of a few more dwarves to make this work efficiently (I have a separate Mason workshop, set to be used only by my best mason, for furniture and the like).

If you want to use stones, then I find the quickest method is to pre-position a Stone stockpile very close to the construction.  The problem with wheelbarrows is that while they are immensely faster, a stockpile will only be "worked" by one dwarf per wheelbarrow.  A stockpile with no wheelbarrows will be worked by as many dwarves are available - so if you have the manpower, it's sometimes faster to have 30 dwarves stumbling under the load of 30 stones, than it is to have 3 dwarves zipping around with 3 wheelbarrows.

The issue with the 30 dwarves is that they take up dwarfpower, and that can be short in some fortresses. (Pun intended.)
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Goatmaan

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2016, 03:26:14 pm »

So jet is the lightest stone, useful for rock pots?!  Well shiza.
I've been using everything BUT jet for pots! Just filtering the nonmasterworks has been painful, now I get to replace them all with jet, yay. At least I have plenty already mined.
Time for some new stockpiles, and 4 or 6 six new shops. Good thing I've got the idlers for such a production shift. Even more crap for the caravans to haul away!!
Jets the lightest stone...wont be forgetting that!

  Goatmaan
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JimmyAgent007

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2016, 08:01:02 am »

Well reclaiming the jet for blocks sure did help it last longer.  Also my inventory count is accurate now.

One odd thing, I got axes for my military squad, they have them, but they are becoming wrestlers.  Whats up with that?  Can I tell them what weapons to train with?

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PatrikLundell

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2016, 10:27:34 am »

No, but they'll eventually start training with the weapons supplied, so you shouldn't get worried unless it takes a lot of time without any training with their weapons.
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JimmyAgent007

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Re: Hello, I have questions.
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2016, 09:40:08 am »

OK, some went back to being axedwarfs already

Having an issue though, was making walls, then covered the above layer with flooring, but now that above layer of flooring is stopping me from putting up new walls.  Removing the flooring worked in most places except 3 tiles simply wont allow the tiles to be designated for it. 

short of trying to make them collapse, is there something else I can do to remove them?
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