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[Tiruin]

...I don't get it.

It was like a running impression that he doesn't really like the USA (It's noticeable in a way in how he talks about the US) and in comparison to China, there's a theme of favoring one over the other. In as far as the wording in that interview went anyway.

I need Trapezohedron in here or others.

[martinuzz]

Duterte cancelled the yearly joint excercise with US forces, and cancelled buying weapons. He wants to buy weapons from Russia and CHina, bcause they have better prices.

He called the Chinese president Xi a "great Leader, because he doesn't nag like a baby about a few thousand dead worthless drug users"

[Reelya]

Make Philippines Great Again.

[smjjames]

Duterte cancelled the yearly joint excercise with US forces, and cancelled buying weapons. He wants to buy weapons from Russia and CHina, bcause they have better prices.

He called the Chinese president Xi a "great Leader, because he doesn't nag like a baby about a few thousand dead worthless drug users"

Not sure if any of the current sanctions on Russia are on buying or selling weapons, but if any of them are, then he'll be breaking those sanctions.

[Tiruin]

Make Philippines Great Again.

He isn't that stupid (but yeah, that's how it seems when somebody goes all "MAKE THIS COUNTRY GREAT AGAIN" and does dumb things)
The idea is diminishing reliance on the USA (especially in parts where exploit is occurring or is very possible to occur) and increasing localized relations. News also report the sensationalism going on regarding Duterte (and in a way its also reasonable given how blunt his communications are at times--but there are significant mentions towards being taken out of context for sensationalism in the int'l news >_<)

That saaaaid:

Duterte cancelled the yearly joint excercise with US forces, and cancelled buying weapons. He wants to buy weapons from Russia and CHina, bcause they have better prices.

He called the Chinese president Xi a "great Leader, because he doesn't nag like a baby about a few thousand dead worthless drug users"

If you're going to make this thread named 'What's going on in the Philippines', broaden the scope. More details.

[martinuzz]

More details.

Go ahead, and provide them, I'm all ears.

[Reelya]

The thing about the arms-trade with America is that the USA provides tax-payers money to that nation, which then used to buy the over-priced American military equipment from private companies in the USA. e.g. it's a money-laundering scheme for politicians who are getting campaign money from those same manufacturers but they can do it under the guise of "aid". This is one of the main reasons they'd be pissed at Duterte.

Lockheed Martin, who make the F35 fighter, are in the top 10 campaign donors in the USA, for example. e.g. politicians directly benefit from approving these cash transfers and arms deals. So when Duterte says to keep your $200 million and that he doesn't wish to buy $200 million worth of American fighter jets, politicians in America are losing out on their bank balance.

Personally, I find the thing about US politicians caring about a few thousand dead drug users ... kinda suspect, considering they often flat out refuse to acknowledge a lot of abuses committed by friendly governments, e.g. Uribe's Colombia, which was called a "Model Democracy" by Bush, despite widespread political killings against government opponents, in favor of wall-to-wall negative reporting of a government that isn't even on record for the government killing anyone, e.g. Chavez's Venezuela.

Sure, clearly some politicians in America do actually care, but given how hard it is to get most of them to care about various atrocities, I get skeptical when all of them suddenly discover human rights in relation to some country that's challenging US hegemony.

[TheBiggerFish]

Good grief.

[SirQuiamus]

Make Philippines Great Again.

He isn't that stupid (but yeah, that's how it seems when somebody goes all "MAKE THIS COUNTRY GREAT AGAIN" and does dumb things)
The idea is diminishing reliance on the USA (especially in parts where exploit is occurring or is very possible to occur) and increasing localized relations. News also report the sensationalism going on regarding Duterte (and in a way its also reasonable given how blunt his communications are at times--but there are significant mentions towards being taken out of context for sensationalism in the int'l news >_<)

Er, I'd also like some more details, if you please. What are these "exploits" performed by the US government, apart from the price-hikes described by Reelya in the above post?  What are you referring to by "sensationalism," exactly? Do you think the int'l media are exaggerating the approximate number of people executed or imprisoned in inhuman conditions, without trial, with President Duterte's full approval? If not, then what is it precisely that you're objecting to?

[Reelya]

Well SirQuiamus, she's talking about the typical stuff America has done and continues to do to a lot of countries. It's pretty well documented, so I'm not going to derail the thread with a derail on that.

<i snipped the stuff I wrote because it was a derail>

A lot of it has to do with the history of Philippines. Some US soldiers on leave killed Filipino soldiers during an altercation in 1899, hostilities broke out over this, and then the US invaded, occupying the country for ~50 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Trade_Act
When they gave them independence in 1946, they made it dependent on them signing a Trade Act which gave the USA a virtual monopoly over everything in Philippines.

The original act stipulated that Americans were to own at least 50% of every industry, uncapped. If Filipinos increased production and ended up making > 50% of something, they had to, by law, give some of it to the Americans. The result was that Americans owned nearly 100% of most companies in the Philippines after they became independent. The original act also made it illegal for Philippines to lower tariffs on anyone except America, which they had to abolish tarrifs on, and pegged their currency to US dollars, preventing them from using fiscal policy to control inflation and interest rates.

These laws expired in the 1970s but the lingering effect is that Americans control most of the foreign investment in Philippines, even today.

[SirQuiamus]

Well SirQuiamus, she's talking about the typical stuff America has done and continues to do to a lot of countries.

You might scoff and ask "Pfft! what stuff?" but that's just a sign you've avoided actually reading anything on the topic. It's not like it's hard to research this stuff, you have the internet as much as we do. Feigning ignorance of stuff that's on the public record is a very pre-internet mode of argument. It holds much less water these days, when google is at your fingertips.

So yeah, not saying you're necessarily doing this, but it's pretty common for people to scoff and demand evidence for every utterance for stuff that's fairly well documented, then when evidence is provided, they scan the entire document, find e.g. 1 statement out of hundreds that's ambiguous, then act like the entire information source is debunked.

Let me just say there's a rich history of the USA doing crappy things to other countries, to maintain their world dominance. And Philippines was an ex-US territory so they got more than their share of this shit. For example, the USA was the primary backer of their genocidal dictator up until the 1980s.

It's not all ancient history either, it strongly spiked up in the Reagan/Bush era and the Bush II era, but there are undercurrents of it in Clinton and Obama eras too.

Aww, man... you're accusing me of being pro-US? I wasn't trying to demand rigorous and irrefutable evidence, mainiac-style. I was just asking Tiruin what she had heard in her local media, and what she thought the international media bias was all about.

I have no quarrel with you, Reelya, nor with anyone else who criticizes the US govt. on a factual basis without blatant political influencing.

[Reelya]

Sorry I discuss that stuff with a lot of people who do that, so I get sensitive to it.

That's why I wrote "So yeah, not saying you're necessarily doing this", just in case.

So I edited out what I wrote, did some digging into US policies that they implemented in Philippines instead. I haven't read up to the Marcoss era and beyond, so there could be more layers of this. But basically I found out they had a thing for forcing newly independent colonies to sign "we own all your shit" treaties, before the locals would be allowed to get their country back.

So, US ownership of Philippines industries was very widespread during the "independent" days, with Americans basically controlling 100% of many industries. With virtually complete American control, of industrial development, tariffs, fiscal policy and exchange rates. This had a strong influence on how the economy evolved thereafter. By the 1970s, Philippines was growing a lot more slowly than all it's regional neighbors.

[Loud Whispers]

Jesus Christ how horrifying

[SirQuiamus]

Sorry I discuss that stuff with a lot of people who do that, so I get sensitive to it.

Yeah, me too. I've been spending way too much time on tankie and anarchist forums, so that quip of yours came out of left field.

That's why I wrote "So yeah, not saying you're necessarily doing this", just in case.

So I edited out what I wrote, did some digging into US policies that they implemented in Philippines instead. I haven't read up to the Marcoss era and beyond, so there could be more layers of this. But basically I found out they had a thing for forcing newly independent colonies to sign "we own all your shit" treaties, before the locals would be allowed to get their country back.

So, US ownership of Philippines industries was very widespread during the "independent" days, with Americans basically controlling 100% of many industries. With virtually complete American control, of industrial development, tariffs, fiscal policy and exchange rates, America has basically shaped the entire economy of Philippines how they wanted it: lack of industrial development, cheap labor, cheap resources.

Americans like to look at places like the Philippines as a basket-case with a mismanaged economy, and that's true, it does look more rocky than most countries in the region. But who exactly was managing it?

I can't say I disagree with any of that...

[smjjames]

From that standpoint, it's definetly understandable how Deuterte would want to decrease US involvement.

Almost like the Philippines is halfway between the quasi-colony that Peurto Rico is and a fully fledged nation with majority native owned companies. Though I don't know the current status of how much of the industries are dominated by American companies.