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[Meph]

Title says it all, let me hear what you think is cool for playable goblins.

[Asin]

Steal children?

[Evans]

Cagethrowers for sure.
Getting some of those made encountering FB much easier for me, so gobs should have those.

What else?
- sacrifice prisoners to their dark gods.
- have some body transformation of gobs intro trolls/ogres perhaps? I would say they bring them in sieges, so let them attempt to do this with some chance (% chance)
if they fail - goblin attempting transformation will be changed into hostile goo or some random sheep or whatever.

Would be nice to tie the two - similarly to "nature hates you" back from 0.34, the more sacrificed prisoners the greater chance for successful transformation.
Of course transformation are limited to lore friendly types. No flying, web and dust spewing giant blood drinking bats etc.

Come to think of it, this could be their "flavor". With cagethrowers they could capture a lot of sacrificial meat and attempt to change themselves.
They would be the only race doing so, which would make them unique enough.
Not sure how this change command works now, in the elven thread the OP reported some issues.

- ability to skip steel industry and mass produce cheap metal between steel and iron (I remember rusty steel from 0.34). Some kind of low grade steel perhaps? directly mix iron, potash and charcoal maybe?

- spider pets. including GCS.
- slower learning
- gobs should have some sort of training/sparring arena with a chance to break a bone or loose an eye or teeth or something. I'm not sure if reaction can cause this, but perhaps add some short-lived syndrome with bleeding ears?
- if it would be possible to implement some system of replacing the current ruler with the one gob that is stronger than the Goblin King, it would be awesome. I doubt the actual duel between king and usurper could happen, but voting the weaker out of position would still be nice.
- limited farming (underground?)
- no strange moods. They will get them anyway from visitors.

Apart from that they do not need to change that much. Perhaps add them all values "family" and "romance" at the highest rate to increase their chance to have offspring and to reflect their high breeding rate. There is some other topic complaining about their slow population growth, but I don't see the problem in my current game - they are the most numerous of all, although loosing wars badly.

I think that keeping them in line with vanilla is not a bad idea. They do not need to be greatly altered to be a menace... to be honest Pandashi should be given some consideration next

[darkflagrance]

I don't know about SLOW_LEARNER - it doesn't affect invader races much, and it cripples the fortress mode for that race by increasing tedium. Lore goblins are often cunning and inventive as well.

As the original author of the Pandashi, I hereby grant permission to anybody who wishes to further develop them or develop a race based on them to do so.

[Meph]

slow_learner also makes it impossible to have nobles. Noble positions can only be filled with creatures that do NOT have that tag.

[Evans]

No tags - I was thinking about this:
   YES_HARDERLEARNING[SKILL_LEARN_RATES:50]
Set to some even lower values.

I don't know about SLOW_LEARNER - it doesn't affect invader races much, and it cripples the fortress mode for that race by increasing tedium. Lore goblins are often cunning and inventive as well.

As the original author of the Pandashi, I hereby grant permission to anybody who wishes to further develop them or develop a race based on them to do so.

Honestly, I know they are WoW, but for some reasons they do fit DF so well, they deserve being playable

Gobs loosing badly:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Dwarf_Fever]

Nevermind, I'm a derp!

Also: fart magic?

[Cergos]

Goblins?! well, of course, they should just be barely-contained-chaos in fortress form.
I mean has anyone ever heard of a grand and orderly goblin civilization?
Nope, that's not the Goblin way.

So basically I'm thinking you start out with quite a few goblins (as there's never just one), and
the goblins that are any good think they're Nobility, and the other half are mostly just worthless.

Tantrums are now good (somehow)
Happiness is bad (mostly)

You should spend most of your time fighting amongst yourself,
and your only chance of making real progress are the Slave Drivers(migrants)
These might bring slaves from other races along with them.
Of course, then the slavers themselves will want to become nobility, and the cycle continues.

Don't even bother with making food, soap, hospitals, or even your own babies.

The entire fortress revolves around The Grand Poobah(or maybe just Goblin King), and the Nobility that will get upset if they don't see him.
However, the king really hates seeing other Nobels, and will be happy when he does not.
If the King gets too happy, something truly Horrible happens.

That "something" probably involves caves, declarations of war, and other such "Fun" things.

...well, that is what Goblins "should" be.
What is actually reasonable is probably another matter.

[kiwiphoenix]

I personally like my goblins' society to revolve around two nobles - a tyrannical overlord (and trusty underling).

The overlord is a Land_Holder who handles Law_Making, Law_Enfocement, Military_Goals, Military_Strategy,  Building_Morale, and also Managing_Production (a.k.a. giving orders from a throne).
Arrogant and self-important, the overlord liberally delivers demands and mandates, expects living kingly living arrangements, is pretentious, and would be exempt from work and punishment if either of those were a thing right now.
They also lead your entirely military - which is to say, your horde. One squad, unlimited size. Once it gets big enough, the only alternative to individually kitting each precious green snowflake is individual choice for everything - this means mad scrambles for equipment and perpetually under-equipped troops.
Between the overlord's flood of mandates, and the fact that your entire army are law enforcers, society is basically split into soldiers (the oppressors) and civilians (the oppressed).

The underling handles all the boring nerd shit, like Accounting, Trade, Establishing_Colony_Trade_Agreements, Health_Management, Receiving_Diplomats, and Executions. You know, the little things that need to be done to keep society ticking.
Sure, they expect certain standards in their daily life, they hold themselves a cut above other goblins, they maybe issue a demand from time to time... but they're really just humble folks. Perfectly happy to quietly stay in the background, keeping the gears turning while the overlord claims power and wins glory.
Oh, and in an unrelated note, the overlord position is succeeded by the underling, should entirely unforseeable tragedy strike.
They're basically the classic shadowy-vizier archetype. If you make it an elected position, then you get to watch as goblins vie for power, clawing over one another for the chance to leap into the still-warm throne after one of the many sieges you'll be facing.

Goblins're already carnivores in vanilla raws... I think use of sentients in reactions is broken now, but it used to be nice to make them alcohol-dependent and allowing them to make some sort of 'booze' from blood and/or corpses. I learned about ghosts that way, and incidentally had my first collapse-by-ghost-spiral at the same time. Good times.
Giving the goblins smithing reactions that produce random weapons and armour ('fuck you, don't tell me what to make') compliments the aforementioned individual-choice horde really nicely. No two soldiers end up with the same kit! Looks great in StoneSense.


It all comes together as a military dictatorship, in which haphazardly-kitted troops randomly assault and/or imprison peasants at the whim of an opulent tyrant, whose lowly 'assistant' does everything important and bides time for the chance to take power.
Bonus points if you carelessly strip-mine the embark site down to bedrock, build a massive tower, put spikes on everything, and litter the landscape with corpses.

[Dwarf_Fever]

1. Make goblins a scourge on the earth: they multiply like crazy and devour food at a rate that is impossible to keep up with. (For flavor, have their farms large and inefficient, and have them rely on wood more, just to turn their fortress land into filth and piss off those hippy elves.)
2. Create a "raiding outpost" building that is placed at the edge of the map, and you can send goblin squads off-map using it.
 (In fact, I imagine their stats and mission would be saved to the building somehow)
3. These goblins may send back food (and a little loot) depending on various factors, such as:

Loyalty and leadership skills of the goblin you assigned as captain
Skill and equipment of the goblin raiders you sent off under him
Responding to any requests for supplies that they sent to be delivered to them while in the field
Distance and wealth of enemy targets
Success of scouts if you sent any prior to the raid or siege

4. Enjoy your fat loot (Kentucky Fried Dwarves?) and prepare for really pissed off neighbors to retaliate.

Ultimately something like this, if possible, would be great for all fortresses in MWDF, but I think it lends itself to the raider types first. Since sieges seem to actually happen in DF in the background, I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to tap into it directly, which would be even better.

[SQman]

Their king should be able to dance the magic dance and jump the magic jump. Oh, and he should have a custom "crotch bulge" body part.

Let's get serious though. I think that goblin forts should be completely unsafe for their own citizens. Reactions in custom workshops could have a chance to maim or kill unlucky workers or spawn hostile creatures. Shoddy sawmill? Amxu loses a hand. Altar to the underworld? A demon comes to claim the sacrifice himself. Snatcher comes back? The slave goes berserk.

I remember an old thread about goblinswhere someone suggested goblin pets having different castes: runt, regular, and strong/dire. In that suggestion, the stronger the animal, the more likely it is to go berserk.

All those dangers would encourage arming as many goblins as possible despite sieges being broken. Also, without goblins dying for silly reasons, what reason would there be to bring back slaves?

[Dwarf_Fever]

All those dangers would encourage arming as many goblins as possible despite sieges being broken. Also, without goblins dying for silly reasons, what reason would there be to bring back slaves?

Why should goblins work when slaves can?

[Cergos]

All those dangers would encourage arming as many goblins as possible despite sieges being broken. Also, without goblins dying for silly reasons, what reason would there be to bring back slaves?

Why should goblins work when slaves can?

You bring up a most interesting point, good sir or madam.

I believe the sociological outlook of the Goblinite people is a matter of utmost importance, and is something that few contemporary Dwarves deign to publish on.
Do Goblins really see all other races as slaves, and their own "kind" as "free"?
or are all creatures just a means to an end for this pragmatic and noble race?

Would a Goblin necessarily be drawn to empathize more with her downtrodden counterparts, or, in her eyes, are they no better than the slaves themselves?

Truly, we have not entirely fathomed the depth and width of the Great Goblin Society that has stood in the shadows for so long. Perhaps, theirs is the only truly equal, and truly fair society that has broken free of the shackles of innate bias and prejudice that mar so many other races.

For if all begin life as a slave, then did not all start as equals?
 

[Dcethe]

My Suggestion

*Dark Altar, what he does is you can sacrifice prisoners and in return you can get real demons that can become part of your fortress ( think about all those times Demons control the Goblin Civs )

*Litter Size should be something like 2:5 since their race is one of the most hated in DF, they would need to breed quickly to stay alive

*A new primitive alloy to help out at the start ( like the rusty steel mentioned above or brand new metals that are easy to make EX. Goblinite = Sacrafice a Troll and provide Tin + Copper to make Trollnite Better than Bronze, worst than Steel )

*New Weapons to flesh out their race ( i think about primitive weps like Spiked club to advance weps like Reverse-Dagger )

[Nahere]

All those dangers would encourage arming as many goblins as possible despite sieges being broken. Also, without goblins dying for silly reasons, what reason would there be to bring back slaves?

Why should goblins work when slaves can?

You bring up a most interesting point, good sir or madam.

I believe the sociological outlook of the Goblinite people is a matter of utmost importance, and is something that few contemporary Dwarves deign to publish on.
Do Goblins really see all other races as slaves, and their own "kind" as "free"?
or are all creatures just a means to an end for this pragmatic and noble race?

Would a Goblin necessarily be drawn to empathize more with her downtrodden counterparts, or, in her eyes, are they no better than the slaves themselves?

Truly, we have not entirely fathomed the depth and width of the Great Goblin Society that has stood in the shadows for so long. Perhaps, theirs is the only truly equal, and truly fair society that has broken free of the shackles of innate bias and prejudice that mar so many other races.

For if all begin life as a slave, then did not all start as equals?
 

I recognise that you aren't being serious, but I think it's worth noting that goblins are never intolerant:
[PERSONALITY:TOLERANT:50:75:100]
They might enslave prisoners of war, but those they kidnap are treated as equals. Of course, that doesn't mean they are treated well, as goblins are without exception cruel and without altruism.
[PERSONALITY:CRUELTY:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]