Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Skill List and Level Effects  (Read 2711 times)

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Skill List and Level Effects
« on: September 21, 2016, 07:03:44 pm »

Editing this to be the list I was trying to find.  This will be a list of the available skills in DF (right now for 2014) and what is confirmed that they adjust.  ? means unconfirmed.  No/Yes is either personal knowledge in the new system or from the wiki when it seemed sure.  This list is from the opening list of skills available for a dwarf and is not entirely complete.

Military Skills:  Levels in this improve accuracy.
Axeman, Swordsman, Maceman, Hammerman, Spearman, Crossbowman, Shield user, Armor User, Fighter, Archer, Wrestler, Striker, Kicker, Biter, Dodger, Misc Object User

Performance: Levels in this improve the happiness of the watchers during a performance.
Speaker, Musician, Singer, Keyboardist, Stringed Instrumentalist, Wind Instrumentalist, Percussionist, Dancer

Scholarly:  Levels here improve generating topics and new ideas during discussions and thoughts.
Critical Thinker, Logician, Mathmatician, Astronomer, Chemist, Geographer, Optics Engineer, Fluid Engineer

ProfessionAffects Time to CompleteResources ProducedQuality of GoodsUseful ForTrait Concerns
MinerYesNoNo
Wood CutterYesNoNo
CarpenterYesNoYes
MasonYesNoYes
EngraverYesNoYes for Engravings, No otherwise
Building DesignerNoNoYesArchitect
WeaponsmithYesNoYes
BowyerYesNoYes
ArmorsmithYesNoYes
MetalsmithYesNoYesBlacksmith
Furnace OperatorYesNoNo
Wood BurnerYesNoNo
Bone CarverYesNoYes
WoodworkerYesNoYes
StoneworkerYesNoYes
Gem CutterYesNoYes
Gem SetterYesNoYes
Potter?NoYes
GlazerNo (Bug)NoNo
Papermaker?NoYes
Bookbinder?NoYes
Wax Worker?NoYes
MechanicYesNoYes
FishermanYesNoYes
MillerYesNoNo
ThresherYesNo?
GrowerYesYes (Planting only)No
Herbalist?YesNo
Brewer?NoNo
Cook?NoYes
WeaverYesNoYes
ClothierYesNoYes
DyerYesNoYes
TrapperYesNo?
AmbusherYesNoYes
ButcherYesNoNo
TannerYesNoYes (Parchment only)
Leatherworker?NoYes
Fish DissectorYesNoNo
Animal DissectorYesNoNo
Fish CleanerYesNoNo
Cheese MakerYesNoNo
MilkerYesNoNo
GelderYesNo?
ShearerYesNoNo
SpinnerYesNo?
PresserYesNoNo
BeekeeperYesNo?
Animal TrainerYesNoYes
Animal CaretakerN/AN/AN/A
SoaperYesNoNo
Lye MakerYesNoNo
Potash MakerYesNoNo
GlassmakerYesNoYes
Siege EngineerYesNoYes
Siege operatorYesNoYes
Pump OperatorNoNoNo
Wound DresserYesNoNo
DiagnosticianYesNoNo
SurgeonNoNoYes
Bone DoctorNoNoYes
SuturerYesNoYes
Crutch-walkerYesNoNo
PersuaderNoNoYesUnassertive Can't Learn
Negotiator?No?
LiarNoNoYesMust be Guarded in Relationships with Others
Intimidator?No?
Judge of IntentNoNoYes (single point needed)Broker
AppraiserNoNoYesBroker
OrganizerYesNoNoManager, Military
Record KeeperYesNoNoBookkeeper
Conversationalist?No?MayorReserved Can't Learn
Comedian?No?MayorSelf-Conscious Can't Learn
Flatterer?No?MayorStraightforward Can't Learn
ConsolerNoNoYesMayorGuarded in Relationship With Others Can't Learn
PacifierNoNoYesMayor
StudentYesNoNoMilitary
ConcentrationYesNoNoMilitary
DisciplineNoNoYesMilitary
ObserverNoNoYesMilitary
Wordsmith?NoYes
Writer?NoYes
Poet?NoYes
Reader?No?
Leader (training weapon skills)YesNoNo
TeacherYesNoNo

King Kitteh

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SAVAGE][CRAZED]
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2016, 07:30:57 pm »

I did a quick google and found this: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/7041/which-low-skill-labors-only-reduce-time

From that I got:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
goodnight, speep tighht, don't let the bedbugs bite

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2016, 08:07:35 pm »

Yeah, found that, the research item on quality percentages based on legendary, and other items.  Was hoping for a complete detailed list.

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 08:21:22 pm »

Btw, from Dame de la Licorne's Story of Atolasob, the time effect seems to be about same scale as the multipliers plants get from farming or gathering(btw, what KingKitteh posted is incorrect - skill affects how many plants are picked up for this job), i.e. a legendary dwarf will work 5 times as fast as no-skill one.

Because of this, enabling all non-mood non-quality skill on moodwarves (a thing I've done) with DT is possible but not necessarily the most efficient. A classic example is brewing: the output is always the same, but since you'll be doing this job hundreds of times limiting it to just a few dwarves can be a time-saver.

This idea of a complete detailed list is complicated by the fact that only some jobs of fair few skills depend on quality - you may not care about what quality your mechanisms are, but linking them up is very fast in dwarf time while machining them can take a while. Here, workshop profiles for minimum skill is helpful.

Other times, you just want to ensure dwarf is free to do it, i.e. to tan a hide, to feed the wounded.

feelotraveller

  • Bay Watcher
  • (y-sqrt{|x|})^2+x^2=1
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2016, 03:03:02 am »

Yeah, found that, the research item on quality percentages based on legendary, and other items.  Was hoping for a complete detailed list.

No complete list but a while back (40.xx) I made up a list of labours where skill affects quality of the product.  Speed generally improves for most labours with increased skill levels but I didn't look into that.  Beyond that trawling through the wiki http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Skills or running your own tests might be required.

Armoursmithing
Weaponsmithing
Mechanics
Crossbow-Making
Masonry
Carpentry
Blacksmithing
Glassmaking
Gem Cutting
Gem Setting
Bone Carving
Clothesmaking
Weaving
Leatherworking
Stonecrafting
Metalcrafting
Woodcrafting
Architecture
Siege Engineering
Dyeing
Pottery
Glazing (not tested)
Wax Working
Bookbinding
Cooking
Farming
Plant Gathering
Fishing
(Edit: forgot the medical skills
Diagnosis
Setting Bones
Surgery
Suturing
Dressing Wounds
at least as far as I could tell.)

These are all uncontroversial but bear in mind that not all activities are quality-affected by skill- Masons making blocks is for example.

Engraving - yes quality when engraving but only speed when smoothing stone.

Animal Trainer - might be worth checking but this is what I had...

Siege Operating - pretty sure that as well as big increase in speed (definite) that accuracy rises substantially with skill levels.

Papermaking - yes for sheets but doesn't matter as the quality does not (currently) affect further products
Tanning - presumably similar when making parchment (just putting this for completeness)

Gelding - I had affecting quality in my notes but I'm pretty sure that I done goofed on this one since wtf would that mean.  ;D

The newer 'occupation' type skills I have not looked at.

Furthermore I did not look into the military skills but experience says that most of them are heavily affected by quality, e.g., skilled weapon users are much more likely to hit.   But someone else would have to help out there...

(Edit2: got lazy but these are the skills I had as speed only, apart from those I mentioned above - think Gelding goes here too  :P
Mining
Bookkeeping
Butchery
Bee Keeping
Milking
Cheesemaking
Shearing
Spinning
Plant Processing (aka Threshing)
Milling
Pressing
Woodburning
Potash Making
Lye Making
Soap Making
Wood Cutting
Brewing
Furnace Operator
Strand Extraction
Hunting (might want to check...)
Trapping
Fish Cleaning
Fish Dissection
Small Animal Dissection
)

Hope that helps somewhat.   :)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 03:25:16 am by feelotraveller »
Logged

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2016, 04:27:41 am »

Gelding is affected by skill: big animals are more likely to injure dwarves when their nuts are crushed on low gelder skills.

I think Ambusher (Hunting) might dictate how likely you're to be spotted, i.e. the story of invisible weremammoth.

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2016, 04:55:55 am »

@Fleeting Frames: Ambusher is how close to your target you can get without being spotted by you or your hunting dogs, they inherit to not overpower the value.  Your gelder comment may make it into my sig, though. XD

@feelotraveller: Thank you for that.  I'm currently rebuilding the list from scratch and using the wiki as the baseline (with experience filling in the blanks I know), but that helps a lot.

Skill with a weapon has always been accuracy for a shot.  It doesn't mean in DF mode the shot you want, as they pick the one they can land the easiest with a random across the best choices (adventure will explain that), but that's a solid beginning.  Hunting is based more on crossbow, and quality improved I'm going to have to dig into more deeply, but I appreciate the time you took to help.  I'll do a science post in a few and link here for it.

(I forget how long I've been gone)

Greiger

  • Bay Watcher
  • Reptilian Illuminati member. Keep it secret.
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find a skill list that shows affect of time and/or quality.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2016, 09:41:22 am »

Want to post to watch this thread but I figure I'll add in some insight too.  With Siege Operating accuracy with the weapon is indeed effected by skill level.  But so does the quality of the parts to make the engine.

Animal trainer more or less increases your success rate and duration for taming animals that your civilization hasn't fully domesticated yet.

Hunting is actually granted by the ambusher skill.  if a dwarf has skill in ambusher they will be given hunter by default.  If they do not have ambusher, even if they are a wizard with a crossbow it won't come preset.  Ambusher increases how close the dwarf can get to a target while sneaking and also had (hay have changed since the move/attack speed split) a minor effect on how quickly they can sneak.
Logged
Disclaimer: Not responsible for dwarven deaths from the use or misuse of this post.
Quote
I don't need friends!! I've got knives!!!

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2016, 03:17:03 pm »

I'm adjusting the opening post and this topic to create the list I cannot find.  Hopefully we'll be able to get this figured.  I trawled the wiki (which took more time than I'd expected) to find what I could, filled in with what I know in the new version, and would love further assistance if anyone knows for sure about the ? areas or if I have bad information.

feelotraveller

  • Bay Watcher
  • (y-sqrt{|x|})^2+x^2=1
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2016, 03:38:04 am »

I'm adjusting the opening post and this topic to create the list I cannot find.  Hopefully we'll be able to get this figured.  I trawled the wiki (which took more time than I'd expected) to find what I could, filled in with what I know in the new version, and would love further assistance if anyone knows for sure about the ? areas or if I have bad information.

Editing this to be the list I was trying to find.  This will be a list of the available skills in DF (right now for 2014) and what is confirmed that they adjust.  ? means unconfirmed.  No/Yes is either personal knowledge in the new system or from the wiki when it seemed sure.  This list is from the opening list of skills available for a dwarf and is not entirely complete.

Military Skills:  Levels in this improve accuracy.
Axeman, Swordsman, Maceman, Hammerman, Spearman, Crossbowman, Shield user, Armor User, Fighter, Archer, Wrestler, Striker, Kicker, Biter, Dodger, Misc Object User

Performance: Levels in this improve the happiness of the watchers during a performance.
Speaker, Musician, Singer, Keyboardist, Stringed Instrumentalist, Wind Instrumentalist, Percussionist, Dancer

Scholarly:  Levels here improve generating topics and new ideas during discussions and thoughts.
Critical Thinker, Logician, Mathmatician, Astronomer, Chemist, Geographer, Optics Engineer, Fluid Engineer

ProfessionAffects Time to CompleteResources ProducedQuality of GoodsUseful ForTrait Concerns
MinerYesNoNo
Wood CutterYesNoNo
CarpenterYesNoYes
MasonYesNoYes
EngraverYesNoYes for Engravings, No otherwise
Building DesignerNoNoYesArchitect
WeaponsmithYesNoYes
Bowyer?NoYes
ArmorsmithYesNoYes
Metalsmith???Blacksmith
Furnace OperatorYesNoNo
Wood BurnerYesNoNo
Bone Carver??Yes
Gem CutterYesNoYes
Gem SetterYesNoYes
Potter?NoYes
GlazerNo (Bug)NoNo
Papermaker?NoYes
Bookbinder???
Wax Worker?NoYes
MechanicYesNoYes
FishermanYesNoYes
Miller?? (Seeds?)No
Thresher???
GrowerYesYes (Planting only)No
Herbalist?YesNo
Brewer?NoNo
Cook?NoYes
Weaver?NoYes
Clothier?NoYes
Dyer?NoYes
Trapper?No?
AmbusherYesNoYes
ButcherYesNoNo
TannerYesNoYes (Parchment only)
Leatherworker?NoYes
Fish DissectorYesNoNo
Animal DissectorYesNoNo
Fish CleanerYesNoNo
Cheese Maker?NoNo
Milker??No
Gelder???
Shearer?NoNo
Spinner?No?
PresserYesNoNo
Beekeeper???
Animal Trainer?No?
Animal CaretakerN/AN/AN/A
SoaperYesNoNo
Lye MakerYesNoNo
Potash MakerYesNoNo
Glassmaker?NoYes
Siege Engineer???
Siege operatorYesNoNo
Pump OperatorNoNoNo
Wound DresserYesNoNo
DiagnosticianYesNoNo
SurgeonNoNoYes
Bone DoctorNoNoYes
SuturerYesNoYes
Crutch-walkerYesNoNo
PersuaderNoNoYesUnassertive Can't Learn
Negotiator???
LiarNoNoYesMust be Guarded in Relationships with Others
Intimidator???
Judge of IntentNoNoYes (single point needed)Broker
AppraiserNoNoYesBroker
OrganizerYesNoNoManager, Military
Record KeeperYesNoNoBookkeeper
Conversationalist???MayorReserved Can't Learn
Comedian???MayorSelf-Conscious Can't Learn
Flatterer???MayorStraightforward Can't Learn
ConsolerNoNoYesMayorGuarded in Relationship With Others Can't Learn
PacifierNoNoYesMayor
StudentYesNoNoMilitary
ConcentrationYesNoNoMilitary
DisciplineNoNoYesMilitary
ObserverNoNoYesMilitary
Wordsmith?NoYes
Writer?NoYes
Poet?NoYes
Reader???
Leader (training weapon skills)YesNoNo
TeacherYesNoNo

Perhaps you could integrate the information I presented a few posts ago?

Your list is missing most of the Craftsdwarfs - Stonecrafter, Woodcrafter, Metalcrafter...

Every ? in the resource produced column is a No
viz- Metalsmith, Bonecarver, Bookbinder, Miller, Thresher, Milker, Gelder, Beekeeper, Siege Engineer
...or more properly n/a for Negotiator, Intimidator, Conversationalist, Comedian, Flatterer and Reader.

In common parlance the stack size effect of Growers and Herbalists is referred to as quality (although a nonsequitor).  The advantage is that this makes the list only two columns wide.  Similarly for weapons 'accuracy' is not properly a product quality but it is useful to distinguish it with respect to speed.

For Grower it is the harvesting job that matters for the number of resources produced not the planting job.

Metalsmith skill affects quality, as does Bookbinder and Siege Engineer.

Thresher has never produced goods with quality levels nor has Gelder, Spinner or Beekeeper.

Glazers WERE bugged but not so any longer.

As far as I am aware all the productive labours are sped up by higher skill levels, architect being something of an exception and, I think, miller when using a millstone as opposed to a quern.  (A slight question mark on Shearing since it happens so fast even with no skill but without frame by frame testing that I have not done I think the presumption should be that it functions that same as all other skills.  And for that matter I have not tested whether the the skilled part of the architect labour might actually be sped up by skill, something which could easily be overlooked since most of the time is spent hauling materials to the building site.)

p.s. Skill in Armour User increases its 'accuracy''?  :o
Logged

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 06:23:29 am »

Sorry, was tired when I posted that.

Metalsmith and Bookbinder adjusted for quality of results.

Beekeeper, Milker, Cheese Maker, Sheerer, Spinner, Thresher, and Miller have been adjusted for speed to completion.

Hunting (Ambusher) affects speed of approach and distance before detection.

Trapper I'd like to find a second source on, I haven't seen time to place a trap to be much difference between a novice and a leg.

I'm concerned about a masterwork gelding:
This is a legendary gelding.  Dese Nuts are removed with pristine precision.  Dats Damn Done, Dog.

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 12:40:50 am »

Now that I'm not half-brained I've re-adjusted the list with other information either tested or found by feelotraveler.  If there are corrections please let me know.

Included the missing crafting skills, and set their settings appropriately.

I'm trying to keep the quality column to mean 'improved results'.  As there is no such thing as a masterwork mushroom, it seemed weird to put it in that column.

According to the wiki, only the planting of the seed matters.  The harvest can be done by anyone.

Quote
Harvesting is not as important as planting, as the size of the stack harvested is not affected by the harvester's skill level. However, harvesting crops does give experience, and if other dwarves are harvesting, then your planters will not gain experience as quickly.

This has been my experience as well.

Also, Glazer is not fixed, as you can't gain experience in it still according to the wiki:
Quote
Bugs
 Since reactions grant experience for [PRODUCT]s and do not grant experience for [IMPROVEMENT]s, glazing does not grant experience. Bug:4577

This I have not had a chance to test for myself.  There is much wiki in the list above.

You're right, I need to spread out the military skills.  My greaves can't be accurate... XD 

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 01:58:45 am »

Wiki is an amazing resource, but it's still updated by people, and is frequently out of date (years in some cases). v.43.03 patch notes

Regarding your greaves, iirc quality and armor user both improve deflection slightly (6% in some versions - not sure if still applies presently).
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 02:00:35 am by Fleeting Frames »
Logged

WanderingKid

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Overfiend
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 03:50:03 am »

Mostly I've found Armor User to increase the speed of the dwarf in the armor.

Is this the piece you're talking about, for Glazer?
 (*) Made improvement reactions increase and apply skill properly

I'll grab a fort and confirm then, unless you've already done that?

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Skill List and Level Effects
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 06:00:01 am »

Yeah, that's the one. Nah, haven't double-checked if it gives exp in DT yet, though that's trivial - btw, glazer has also another bug in that ash bars used for it use only 1/150 of bar per glaze(I guess? At least less than a full bar.)
Pages: [1] 2