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Author Topic: Raiding Neighboring Tower?  (Read 2469 times)

Akoto

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Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« on: September 18, 2016, 11:05:41 pm »

Hi all,

So, my once tiny fortress built in the depths of natural caverns has grown into a prosperous city packed with migrants/visitors and carefully safeguarded against the menaces of the deep!

I've since read at least one account of someone sending dwarves from their fortress on 'an adventure' to raid a tower, and those dwarves brought back the necromancer's secrets on life and death.

I live right next to a necromancer's tower, and he's sent undead to attack me a few times. Failed, mostly, because I intentionally built far down in the natural caverns to better thwart his invasions. Now that I'm more of a force to be reckoned with, I wonder if enacting such a raid is actually possible in fortress mode? If so, how?

This is a good time to try it, as my militia's been supplemented by several skilled, long-term resident mercenaries. We must at last wrest the secrets of life and death from that necromancer, because my nobles want to learn them- er, so that we may end his lineage of necromancy once and for all!
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wierd

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2016, 11:11:45 pm »

Short answer: No.

Long answer:

Step 1), retire fortress

Step 2) Create adventurer

Step 3) Journey to your retired fortress.

Step 4) Recruit some dwarves from your fortress

Step 5) Assault tower with recruited dwarves

Step 6) Secure special books

Step 7) Return with books to your fortress site

Step 8) Retire adventurer at the fortress

Step 9) Restart the fortress


Alternative:

1) Retire fortress

2) Use DFHack to start on top of the necromancer's tower. (Use Embark! plugin)

3) Before initial unpause, lock necromancer's tower doors

4) Mine out underneath the necromancer's tower.

5) Channel out the tiles holding up the necromancer's tower except for 1 tile

6) Create a support to hold up the tower.

7) Link support to lever

8) Channel out last remaining bit of land holding up tower.

9) Pull lever

10) Collect books from ruined tower

11) Train many necromancer dwarves

12) Retire fortress

13) restart previous fortress

14) wait for necromancer migrants.
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Akoto

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2016, 11:40:42 pm »

... Wow. That's certainly an elaborate way to go about it. :o

Maybe I should just DFhack the book into my fortress. Heh. I almost want to try a new fort with that second plan just for fun, though!
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 12:49:22 am »

2) Use DFHack to start on top of the necromancer's tower. (Use Embark! plugin)
I think it might (also) be under the umbrella of embark-tools these days.

Either way, I do recommend taking a look at necro tower once. Without spoiling what you will find, what was was totally not what I expected.

Akoto

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 01:07:58 am »

Oddly enough, the plan to collapse the tower from below didn't work.

I dug out an area under the tower matching its dimensions, built channels, and then pulled a lever to destroy the support I'd built. I did get a message about a section caving in, but the tower still stands above ground.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 01:28:22 am »

Seeing that, I just tried mining ground out below one in 42.06. Collapsed fine.

Just checking, yours isn't attached to the sky? I've seen a tower to highest z-level before, though not sure it does anything anymore.

Akoto

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 01:46:38 am »

Seeing that, I just tried mining ground out below one in 42.06. Collapsed fine.

Just checking, yours isn't attached to the sky? I've seen a tower to highest z-level before, though not sure it does anything anymore.

I just took another look at the tower and, nope, the tower's actually fairly short, three or four stories. The roof is many levels below the top of the sky.

I can only think of a couple things, don't know if they matter ...

The tower was built on sand, and the layer channeled down leads again to sand. I doubt this matters, though, given that the collapse message still went off?

The other thought is that I did dig the cave under the tower to the tower's precise dimensions, which means the outer walls have downward ramps beneath them. Could those be holding it up?

Attempted on v0.43.03.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 01:48:51 am by Akoto »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2016, 02:14:06 am »

Ramps have a tendency to keep things up, yes. So do "floors" (such as the ground next to the tower) .
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Akoto

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2016, 02:38:20 am »

Ramps have a tendency to keep things up, yes. So do "floors" (such as the ground next to the tower) .

I channeled out the tiles surrounding the tower and boom, down it went. Sadly, in dealing with the ramps, there were miners below. So, now I see how topple those evil towers. Many dwarves died to bring us this information ...

Oh, and I don't think the necromancy book was in the wreckage. Bah. Just a bunch of books about the tower, ironically. Hard to tell, though, without first building a library and getting someone to read.

On that note, for some reason, my dwarves have stopped cutting down trees. Like, all dwarves, in this new game and my regular game. Could I have some something in DFhack to cause this? They have axes.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 02:45:23 am by Akoto »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2016, 03:30:55 am »

Are they wood axes on 43.03, perchance?

Akoto

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2016, 03:31:46 am »

Are they wood axes on 43.03, perchance?

Just the default axes you usually start with. I only recently started having the problem.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2016, 04:55:05 am »

wow you can do option 1 now? retiring, adventure and come back later on in fortress mode?

that's awesome!
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mikekchar

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2016, 12:56:39 am »

I've done this a few times now and there are some caveats (some obviously intentional and some not-so-intentional).  I found that if I retire the fortress and start with an adventurer from the fortress, I am not allowed to sleep there for some reason.  It's not a huge problem, but it means you can't use your old fortress as a base to work out of.  If there are no close by towns, you will need to get travelling companions so that you don't meet an untimely end by the boogey men.

You can solicit companions from your fortress as normal, although the times I've played I haven't had a high social standing so everyone said "no".  I *think* that the easiest way to recruit companions from your actual fortress is to make sure that they are doing militia duty (patrolling, training, whatever) when you retire.  This will turn them into mace dwarfs, etc, instead of growers.

While you are adventuring, your fortress will get many, many visitors.  When you unretire, these visitors will still be there.  You might also even get new citizens while you are away (I even got a goblin citizen once!).  If the caravan comes while you are away, there is a chance that the merchants will become part of your fortress.  They are a bit like performers in that they do nothing other than hang around in your locations.  Presumably they can petition for full residency after 2 years, but I haven't tested that theory.  Sometimes visitors will be "hostile".  They will mostly do nothing but stand around.  If you get attacked, they will come to your aid and not attack you.  The only time they will attack you is if you attack them or if there is a loyalty cascade (in which case some of them will attack you).  Eventually they seem to leave the map (just like normal visitors).  It's a bit creepy (especially if they are standing around in your bedrooms), but they don't seem to be harmful.

When you unretire a fortress, all of your citizens, pets and livestock will be randomly distributed on the map.  This is potentially bad news if you have dangerous creatures locked up somewhere.  I believe (but haven't tested) that creatures in cages will no longer be in cages.  Almost everything in containers will be removed from the containers.  So if you have lots of stuff in bins, then they will be taken out of the bins.  The worst aspect of this is that all of your booze will be on the floor.  So before your retire your fortress, make sure you have a reasonable stock of plants so that your can restock your booze.  Also make sure that you have access to water in the mean time. 

I found that it took me about 2 months to clean up the mess when I unretired a fortress.  It's not really a bad problem.  One other bad downside is that your manager work orders will all be cleared.  I run virtually automated forts, so this is a pain, but it's also fun to make the orders so I don't mind so much ;-)

As for running in adventure mode... It's kind of fun to run an adventurer from the fortress (you will get a new dwarf, so basically it means a "special" immigrant).  The main reason it's fun is that they know all the people in the fortress and you can tell stories about them to learn their back stories (without having to go into legends mode).  I have not had a vampire yet, so I don't know if it will betray their secret or not.  Travelling around is quite fun and you can learn about the history of your surroundings by telling stories.

The other nice thing about doing this is that you can explore and learn about the musical and poetic forms of your culture.  In fortress mode, it's pretty much impossible to understand what's going on.  But in adventure mode, you can browse through the songs you know and it will tell you which instruments it needs, etc.  This is really useful for knowing which instruments you need in your taverns and temples.

I'm currently trying to play through a kind of "campaign" where I started with an adventurer in year 5 (so that there is not much history, art or locations to overwhelm my feeble brain).  I played him for a month or so and then he sustained an injury where he couldn't use his right arm.  I then retired him and built a fortress right next door with the idea of building a hospital.  Once the hospital is built, I'm going to move my adventurer in it.  Eventually he will probably get restless and upon hearing a rumour that becoming a were-beast will cure his arm he may set out in search of one....  Well... that kind of thing anyway.  I'm also curious to see if strategic placement of fortresses coupled with incursions into opposition locations can eventually allow my civilization to conquer the world.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Raiding Neighboring Tower?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2016, 05:10:08 am »

^ this aar needs to get Toady attention
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