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[Reelya]

That looks blue if you blow it up. Because it's small and surrounded by the black, the colors blend and its becomes harder to make out the hue.

note that if you go to the page for the image itself, it only lists two colors, blue or grey, not the third one. The first city to outlaw conversion therapy for gender was Cincinatti at the end of 2015, perhaps the map hasn't been updated but someone put in the purple into the legend in preparation for that, but didn't get around to updating the map itself.

[TheBiggerFish]

Is there any purple? 

I can't see any either.

...I'm beginning to suspect that is the point

Either it's my eyesight, laptop, or the lighting, but I think I see a tiny speck of purple below Pennsylvania? I forgot the name of that state below it. >_<
Source for easier browsing?

Also conversion therapy @LGBT folks is dum :v
Could I ask the history of it please? We've never believed it in this country or as far as I and all those I've asked or been with in religious/psych fields have known. Or practiced it. :v

The state below PA is Maryland.

[Starver]

The state below PA is Maryland.

I thought it was Angband...

[Lord_lemonpie]

Well, as a gay person, I want to throw my opinion out there.

I think there is, and should only be four sexualities: Heterosexual, Homosexual, Asexual and Bisexual. I think more common terms like pansexual, or the tumblr tier sexualities like Iculasexual or Gynosexual are just meaningless terms. You like men, women, neither or both. If you like things other than their gender, like their age or hair colour, that's a fetish, not a new sexuality.

I also think there's two genders. Male and Female. These do not have to correspond to your genitalia at birth, transgenders who identify as female should thus be approached like them. No one truly fits in with the stereotype, as every individual is different. This doesn't mean you're special enough to change hundreds of thousands of years of human gender-related values.

People who make everything about their sexuality or gender, no matter if it's one I consider real or fake, are incredibly shallow. I usually don't tell anyone I'm gay unless they ask (or I'm interested in them ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )), and I have an incredible dislike towards the "flamer" community, a very vocal minority of gays that need to tell everyone "hurr durr im gay hurr durr homophobe hurr durr im better than you". I am more than my sexuality, and most of the time it's got nothing to do with the situation. I usually don't see the point in mentioning it.

Most importantly, I also don't harbor any distaste against people identifying as something I don't consider real. Sure, they're not perfect in my eyes, but everyone has flaws and just because they support something I don't doesn't mean they're bad people. As long as they're not constantly complaining about it and stuff, I'm totally fine with it.

[Rolan7]

That's a compelling point of view.  Particularly the bit about "flamers", or what I'd call excessively camp people...  They bother me.  I wouldn't say it's *wrong*, just kinda brazen for my sensibilities *shrug*.  Just like some chav bragging about how much he loves titties (not sure why I went to chavs there, I'm American, whatever)

I've called myself genderfluid a lot, but I've also honestly doubted whether it's a thing that needs a word.  I'm definitely not trans, I'm just a guy that doesn't match the male stereotype in a lot of ways.  It's nice to be able to talk about it, because society often makes me feel shitty about it.  But does it need to be an "identity" I "subscribe to"? 

I'd so much rather reduce the stigma against being non-stereotypical.  Ideally we shouldn't have words like "tomboy" and "genderfluid", we'd just accept that gender isn't a role we need to follow closely.  Ideally, gender wouldn't be a big deal at all...

[TempAcc]

I don't care much about what people identify themselves as, I just have a hard time taking anyone who makes their sexuality the centerpoint of their existence very seriously.

Really now, when people get to the point that their sexuality is at the core of their lives to the point they feel the need to expose it to pretty much anyone, it gets pretty hard to see them as anything other than cartoonish teenagers that have dulled their senses and personality to the point their sexuality almost completely takes over their social persona and transforms them into walking caricatures. Be you heterosexual, homosexual, or anything near, far and in between, if your sexuality is the centerpoint of your social experience, you're probably a huge boring dweeb thats not worth my time.

Altough I have coped with that kind of stuff before, to get what I wanted out of people. Thankfuly I've grown past that since, but you get what I mean ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I mean, I have nothing against people using a certain environment or situation as a place and a time to express their sexuality in full, but I've met people whose sexuality had essentialy taken over their lives and altered the course of their life choices.

[spümpkin]

I don't care much about what people identify themselves as, I just have a hard time taking anyone who makes their sexuality the centerpoint of their existence very seriously.

Really now, when people get to the point that their sexuality is at the core of their lives to the point they feel the need to expose it to pretty much anyone, it gets pretty hard to see them as anything other than cartoonish teenagers that have dulled their senses and personality to the point their sexuality almost completely takes over their social persona and transforms them into walking caricatures. Be you heterosexual, homosexual, or anything near, far and in between, if your sexuality is the centerpoint of your social experience, you're probably a huge boring dweeb thats not worth my time.

Altough I have coped with that kind of stuff before, to get what I wanted out of people. Thankfuly I've grown past that since, but you get what I mean ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I mean, I have nothing against people using a certain environment or situation as a place and a time to express their sexuality in full, but I've met people whose sexuality had essentialy taken over their lives and altered the course of their life choices.

I agree with this, and I find it kinda saddening that people make their whole lives based around who they're interested in. I might do it myself, please point it out if I do, but I try not to.

Who we are isn't dependent on who we want to date/bang, or what gender we identify as, 'we' in this statement being humans on a whole.

[Shadowlord]

I think there is, and should only be four sexualities: Heterosexual, Homosexual, Asexual and Bisexual. I think more common terms like pansexual, or the tumblr tier sexualities like Iculasexual or Gynosexual are just meaningless terms. You like men, women, neither or both. If you like things other than their gender, like their age or hair colour, that's a fetish, not a new sexuality.

Personally, I say pansexual because if I were to say 'bisexual' I feel like I would be implying that people who don't don't identify as either gender, or who appear androgynous, etc, aren't acceptable to me, when they are.

As for the second part, I don't think I'd call liking particular hair colors more a fetish. It's not really on par with what's commonly thought of as a fetish (feet... stuff... for example). I find some hair colors more attractive and some less attractive. (I've always assumed that everyone does, tbh. Society tries to tell us that blondes are the most attractive, but blond hair makes people less attractive to me)

I also think there's two genders. Male and Female. These do not have to correspond to your genitalia at birth, transgenders who identify as female should thus be approached like them. No one truly fits in with the stereotype, as every individual is different.

There are many cultures that have, or have had, a third gender, or more than three, as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#India

This doesn't mean you're special enough to change hundreds of thousands of years of human gender-related values.

Isn't this the same sort of argument that was used against gay marriage? (Answer: yes, in the form of "marriage is traditionally between one man and one woman, and has been for all of history," which is an argument which relied not on actual history but on appealing to people who saw their way of life as somehow being under attack)

People who make everything about their sexuality or gender, no matter if it's one I consider real or fake, are incredibly shallow. I usually don't tell anyone I'm gay unless they ask (or I'm interested in them ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )), and I have an incredible dislike towards the "flamer" community, a very vocal minority of gays that need to tell everyone "hurr durr im gay hurr durr homophobe hurr durr im better than you". I am more than my sexuality, and most of the time it's got nothing to do with the situation. I usually don't see the point in mentioning it.

You could look at it as folks wanting to embrace their identify and show it proudly. Of course as with everything, insulting people isn't usually a good way to get people to look at things from your point of view. I don't mean you personally, I mean the general "your", just to be clear.

Most importantly, I also don't harbor any distaste against people identifying as something I don't consider real. Sure, they're not perfect in my eyes, but everyone has flaws and just because they support something I don't doesn't mean they're bad people. As long as they're not constantly complaining about it and stuff, I'm totally fine with it.

"I don't think your identity really exists, no disrespect."

[Lord_lemonpie]

Personally, I say pansexual because if I were to say 'bisexual' I feel like I would be implying that people who don't don't identify as either gender, or who appear androgynous, etc, aren't acceptable to me, when they are.

As mentioned before, I don't think there are more than two genders. However, my definition of bisexual is "fucks everything", so maybe omnisexual/pansexual would be a better term instead of bisexual.

As for the second part, I don't think I'd call liking particular hair colors more a fetish. It's not really on par with what's commonly thought of as a fetish (feet... stuff... for example). I find some hair colors more attractive and some less attractive. (I've always assumed that everyone does, tbh. Society tries to tell us that blondes are the most attractive, but blond hair makes people less attractive to me)

I agree, I should've said it would've either been a fetish or sexual preference. My point still stands though, it shouldn't be a new sexuality.

There are many cultures that have, or have had, a third gender, or more than three, as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#India

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same. You can still be a man and like cooking (like me!) or dolls. Gender terms aren't something you should strictly adhere to, and someone that's different should'nt need a different gender assigned to them.

Isn't this the same sort of argument that was used against gay marriage? (Answer: yes, in the form of "marriage is traditionally between one man and one woman, and has been for all of history," which is an argument which relied not on actual history but on appealing to people who saw their way of life as somehow being under attack)

The difference between this and gay marriage, is that everyone has to change for this. Everyone would have to memorize a bazillion pronouns and new genders, whilst for gay marriage only some laws have to change. Gay marriage only influences those who choose to be influenced.

I support gay marriage, but I vehemently oppose gays wanting to marry in/for a church/mosque/temple that is anti gay. I think that's disrespectful towards that religion, be it a minority or majority religion. Gays should freely be allowed to marry for the state, and pro gay religious organisations though.

You could look at it as folks wanting to embrace their identify and show it proudly. Of course as with everything, insulting people isn't usually a good way to get people to look at things from your point of view. I don't mean you personally, I mean the general "your", just to be clear.

I understand why they do it. I just hate it because they give moderate gays like us a terrible name. No, I don't like "big black dicks" just because some flamer said all gays like them.

"I don't think your identity really exists, no disrespect."

I don't think your gender identity really exists, but you're a great person so I don't care if something else about you isn't as I'd want it because I'm not a narcissist.

Not ignoring the fact that I'd never bring it up in the first because I don't hang out with people who let their gender/sexuality define them, I don't care that much and I don't think their gender is all of their identity.

[spümpkin]

Okay, I don't really want to get involved in the discussion too deeply, but I just thought this was really funny:

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same.

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, which is entirely variable, they are a woman.

[Lord_lemonpie]

Okay, I don't really want to get involved in the discussion too deeply, but I just thought this was really funny:

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same.

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, which is entirely variable, they are a woman.

I'm not saying it is entirely variable, I'm just saying no one is "perfectly" male or female. Gender is not set in stone, it's variable, yet it's clearly still present. There's things that are feminine and things masculine. If you try to be as feminine as possible, you're a woman to me. That doesn't mean you have to be 100% stereotypically female.

[Edmus]

If the societal vocabulary expands in a way that lets us understand ourselves and others better, it's a good thing. I don't believe that 95% of the new words and terms being thrown around will stick, but of those that do, I believe they will stick because they are useful.

I'm unsure what a 'flamer' is, and how far removed the term is from 'flambo,'(Urban dictionary suggests the difference is how annoying you find them) but knowing gay people of the more ostentatious variety, I can say that they are a very varied group of people and stereotyping them as sex obsessed is not helpful.

Okay, I don't really want to get involved in the discussion too deeply, but I just thought this was really funny:

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same.

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, which is entirely variable, they are a woman.

I'm not saying it is entirely variable, I'm just saying no one is "perfectly" male or female. Gender is not set in stone, it's variable, yet it's clearly still present. There's things that are feminine and things masculine. If you try to be as feminine as possible, you're a woman to me. That doesn't mean you have to be 100% stereotypically female.

Is this regardless of how they themselves identify? I'm thinking of crossdressers as an example.

[Lord_lemonpie]

If the societal vocabulary expands in a way that lets us understand ourselves and others better, it's a good thing. I don't believe that 95% of the new words and terms being thrown around will stick, but of those that do, I believe they will stick because they are useful.

I'm unsure what a 'flamer' is, and how far removed the term is from 'flambo,'(Urban dictionary suggests the difference is how annoying you find them) but knowing gay people of the more ostentatious variety, I can say that they are a very varied group of people and stereotyping them as sex obsessed is not helpful.

The difference between flamers and flambo's is their attitude. Flamers tend to be rude, entitled, and think the world revolves around them. They're like the gay "hyper-SJW's", throwing around buzzwords and thinking all should bend to them because they're gay. Flambo's are different. Sure, it's not how I am, but as long as you're not a total obnoxious cunt about being gay you can behave how you want.

Okay, I don't really want to get involved in the discussion too deeply, but I just thought this was really funny:

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same.

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, which is entirely variable, they are a woman.

I'm not saying it is entirely variable, I'm just saying no one is "perfectly" male or female. Gender is not set in stone, it's variable, yet it's clearly still present. There's things that are feminine and things masculine. If you try to be as feminine as possible, you're a woman to me. That doesn't mean you have to be 100% stereotypically female.

Is this regardless of how they themselves identify? I'm thinking of crossdressers as an example.

Well, for me it's more about long term. If someone always dresses, acts and behaves like a woman, i'll treat her like i'd treat a woman. If someone just likes to go full drag sometimes (i've done it when I was younger once for carnaval, it was hilarious tbh), and still identifies as a man all the time, I'll still treat them like a man. If they insist I call them otherwise, however, I'll try to oblige but my memory is not the best so I might not be too consistent.

But, if I were to see a crossdresser on the streets that identifies as a man, I'd still call them she, unless they correct me, just to be sure.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I honestly have no idea what gender identity even is, but I know that Lemonpie is describing gender roles and expressions.

Take, for instance, submissiveness. It's considered a feminine trait, and there is an expectation (albeit weaker today) for women to be submissive. This is a gender role.

Somebody might then decide to be submissive in order to communicate that they are feminine. This is gender expression.


I have no idea why anybody would want to do that, and it honestly seems like a "man's view" of femininity... but who am I to say that somebody cannot be submissive? You see TERFs yelling at the trans-women who accrue "feminine, as seen by a man" traits (submissiveness, etc.), but you don't see them yelling at the women who does so. I'd argue that if this is a problem, we'd solve it by decoupling traits from gender (boys can wear dresses and play with dolls, boys can be gentle and thoughtful and emotional), and there's no need to treat trans-women differently from women.


And if gender is defined as "which gender expression do you prefer," then eugh that's some gender-role-enforcing shit.

If the societal vocabulary expands in a way that lets us understand ourselves and others better, it's a good thing. I don't believe that 95% of the new words and terms being thrown around will stick, but of those that do, I believe they will stick because they are useful.

I'm unsure what a 'flamer' is, and how far removed the term is from 'flambo,'(Urban dictionary suggests the difference is how annoying you find them) but knowing gay people of the more ostentatious variety, I can say that they are a very varied group of people and stereotyping them as sex obsessed is not helpful.

The difference between flamers and flambo's is their attitude. Flamers tend to be rude, entitled, and think the world revolves around them. They're like the gay "hyper-SJW's", throwing around buzzwords and thinking all should bend to them because they're gay. Flambo's are different. Sure, it's not how I am, but as long as you're not a total obnoxious cunt about being gay you can behave how you want.

Okay, I don't really want to get involved in the discussion too deeply, but I just thought this was really funny:

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same.

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, which is entirely variable, they are a woman.

I'm not saying it is entirely variable, I'm just saying no one is "perfectly" male or female. Gender is not set in stone, it's variable, yet it's clearly still present. There's things that are feminine and things masculine. If you try to be as feminine as possible, you're a woman to me. That doesn't mean you have to be 100% stereotypically female.

Is this regardless of how they themselves identify? I'm thinking of crossdressers as an example.

Well, for me it's more about long term. If someone always dresses, acts and behaves like a woman, i'll treat her like i'd treat a woman. If someone just likes to go full drag sometimes (i've done it when I was younger once for carnaval, it was hilarious tbh), and still identifies as a man all the time, I'll still treat them like a man. If they insist I call them otherwise, however, I'll try to oblige but my memory is not the best so I might not be too consistent.

But, if I were to see a crossdresser on the streets that identifies as a man, I'd still call them she, unless they correct me, just to be sure.

Why not just treat people like people

[Edmus]

If the societal vocabulary expands in a way that lets us understand ourselves and others better, it's a good thing. I don't believe that 95% of the new words and terms being thrown around will stick, but of those that do, I believe they will stick because they are useful.

I'm unsure what a 'flamer' is, and how far removed the term is from 'flambo,'(Urban dictionary suggests the difference is how annoying you find them) but knowing gay people of the more ostentatious variety, I can say that they are a very varied group of people and stereotyping them as sex obsessed is not helpful.

The difference between flamers and flambo's is their attitude. Flamers tend to be rude, entitled, and think the world revolves around them. They're like the gay "hyper-SJW's", throwing around buzzwords and thinking all should bend to them because they're gay. Flambo's are different. Sure, it's not how I am, but as long as you're not a total obnoxious cunt about being gay you can behave how you want.

Okay, I don't really want to get involved in the discussion too deeply, but I just thought this was really funny:

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, it is a woman for me. As mentioned before, no woman or man is the same.

If someone behaves and dresses like a woman, which is entirely variable, they are a woman.

I'm not saying it is entirely variable, I'm just saying no one is "perfectly" male or female. Gender is not set in stone, it's variable, yet it's clearly still present. There's things that are feminine and things masculine. If you try to be as feminine as possible, you're a woman to me. That doesn't mean you have to be 100% stereotypically female.

Is this regardless of how they themselves identify? I'm thinking of crossdressers as an example.

Well, for me it's more about long term. If someone always dresses, acts and behaves like a woman, i'll treat her like i'd treat a woman. If someone just likes to go full drag sometimes (i've done it when I was younger once for carnaval, it was hilarious tbh), and still identifies as a man all the time, I'll still treat them like a man. If they insist I call them otherwise, however, I'll try to oblige but my memory is not the best so I might not be too consistent.

But, if I were to see a crossdresser on the streets that identifies as a man, I'd still call them she, unless they correct me, just to be sure.

I've known a guy that fits the bill in a mundane context, except I never did work out if he was gay or not. Obnoxious arsehole though he was, he did have his moments.
I have also seen a fellow that meets your description even more closely on a discussion hosted by tvo.
Given the thread, here's a hyperlink.
It's quite a solid watch with a wide range of perspectives, but the guy they got to represent the furthest genderqueer argument is... Nyeah.
I do suppose he's more affable in reality though.

And that's a fairly solid approach re: gender. I think I disagree with you in some areas, but if you're being respectful and tolerant it's hard for me to be fussed.