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[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I was making an analogy. Although I'm not complaining about the current topic.

[TheBiggerFish]

I was thinking of the whole "Androgynous couples are happiest together" and I am starting to think that has less to do with gender roles so much that "People with a lot in common and who are willing to work together tend to be the strongest couple"

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[Reelya]

What about just literally ice.

Vanilla Ice is a gender now

[Rolepgeek]

What about just literally ice.

Vanilla Ice is a gender now

I think I'll raise my children as Ice Ice Babies

[BlackHeartKabal]

What about just literally ice.

Vanilla Ice is a gender now

I think I'll raise my children as Ice Ice Babies

It says something about me that I thought of the JJBA character first instead of the actual man.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

di di di di-di di doo
di di di di-di di doo
di di di di-di di doo
di di di di di di  - ICE ICE
UNDER (BABY) PRESSURE

glares at each other

[Vector]

-snip-

[TheBiggerFish]

[awe at insight intensifies]

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I'm not sure what you all are trying to say.

My statement is that the choice should always be given to deviate from the gender roles and stereotypes. Any other statement implies that, in at least some situations, people should be forced to follow gender roles and stereotypes. Are you, in fact, saying that?

[saigo]

People think you want to do away with gender roles entirely.

[Vector]

-snip-

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Well, I agree that the choice does exist to deviate from norms, at all times...

But do you remember Sartre? He said that one always has a choice, namely the choice of suicide. If society killed everyone who didn't fit the gender roles, there would technically be the choice of deviating, but not a choice that most would consider to be an acceptable choice.

Now, that is of course an extreme analogy, but the same concept can be carried over - it is important for deviation to be accepted. This is what I was arguing. I was never arguing that gender roles themselves should be done away with. Diminished in importance? That'd be nice, but unlikely.

Saying that most people don't want choice doesn't mean that the people who do want choice should be denied it. Sure, most cultures tend toward exclusionary norms. Lots of cultures have participated in slavery. That doesn't mean that it's ethical.

[Vector]

-snip-

[TheBiggerFish]

So we should be promoting diverse identities, then?  Hmh.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I say "people think I'm trying to take away choices, but all I'm doing is giving them." People say "ah, but some people don't like choices."

wat

That's who I'm trying to convince.