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[origamiscienceguy]

I for one would expect women to on average have a lower pay, because they tend to get pregnant more often then males. Several months with lower pay, and missed promotions and whatnot. I have no idea how big of a difference that would make, but it makes sense to me that there is some kind of difference.

[Neonivek]

I for one would expect women to on average have a lower pay, because they tend to get pregnant more often then males. Several months with lower pay, and missed promotions and whatnot. I have no idea how big of a difference that would make, but it makes sense to me that there is some kind of difference.

That accounts for some of it. However they had checked the pay gap between women who haven't gotten pregnant and men and saw there is still a wage gap.

Originally the idea was that MAYBE women are getting paid less because the company is paying them less BECAUSE they might get pregnant...

Yet what they discovered later on is that men and women act differently in a work setting and that men in the typical workplace environment will seek out wage increases far more then women will.

Which some people concluded that it is because "Men are more aggressive" So thus the solution muuust be that we shouldn't allow any negotiation right?

Which later we also found out that isn't true. Women will in fact seek pay increases and promotions more aggressively then men IF they are told they are able to and actually start to do better than men.

---

In otherwords... everytime people make an assumption about men or women we have to go through an annoying period of assumptions until we actually hunker down and actually do work.

It is why Gender Studies is a outright toxic environment because you get people who just sort of throw their assumptions at the wall and point to a statistic as proof even though statistics are rarely proof. "Ohh this group has a 20% female participation rate! MUST be because of sexism!"... and then later on they find out it is because that job in that town is favored by highschool dropouts and that women tended to get their education more often.

[mainiac]

Seems awful narrative.

[Reelya]

The relationship at 30-34 is above average.  But I know for a fact that there is a negative correlation in at least one other cohort.  That is because I swapped the axis on my graph last page.  There is actually a negative correlation between the size of the gender pay gap and weeks of paid leave.  Countries with more pay leave have smaller gender pay gaps.

IDK, i just did my own regression analysis. Data was:
http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/PF2_1_Parental_leave_systems.xls "Total Paid Leave Available To Mothers" (data from 2015)
vs
http://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF_1_5_Gender_pay_gaps_for_full_time_workers.xlsx (2012 data)

I got a positive relationship from that, for all countries that had both data.

[mainiac]

Okay. Care to post a scatter plot? Or two columns?

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

This isn't that bad, but keep it on the rails and off the moderation log, guys. Stay civil. (I promise not to go insane with this power )

*proceeds to leap into the discussion*

So back on the "testosterone is geek-chem" topic, I never did get a response. Would "not caring about whether penis or no" mean agender, or is it more than just the mental part of sex (male/female, not the act)?

Loving the graphs. Science farm yeah.

[mainiac]

I don't think that is agender.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

Then what is agender?

[mainiac]

Not having gender identity which isn't the same as sex bits.

[Reelya]

Well, this is the chart I got:


plotted total weeks of paid parental leave available to women vs the wage gap. When factoring in all types of paid leave available to each country, there is a positive correlation. But if you only factor in column 1 from the maternity leave chart, there is a negative correlation. That excludes much of the actual paid leave entitlements however.

[mainiac]

Naturally, the obligatory xkcd on the subject:

I have an idea for a game. We try to guess purely from eyeballing what the p-value is.  I am guessing 32%.

I will give it this. The homoscedasticity does mean I trust it to be consistent in showing no correlation.

[Sheb]

Im game. I say p-value of 0.45 what are we betting?

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

You define gender as gender identity. Nice tautology, but doesn't actually answer my question.

What is gender? My question was "what is the absence of gender", which is functionally identical.

[Reelya]

Of course, the graphs we did are going to have a low amount of meaning. I'd still say the analysis done by the OECD and cited by Pew has more actual relevance to the topic as hand.

Just showing that the claim that more leave = lower wage gap doesn't seem to have much basis.

For that last graph, there is a very weak positive correlation. But that's not the point. When OECD sampled just 30-34 year old women, the correlation was pretty strong. That's relevant because that's just past the age where women in those countries start having kids, so they're more likely to have been affected by recent rules on maternity leave.

Mixing up the data between people likely to have been affected by something and people unlikely to have been affected by something would definitely tend to hide whatever connection there is.

[crazyabe]

PTW