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[wierd]

sadly, no. Most people calm down a bit as they get older, but a great many want to live like hormonal teenagers forever.

they never return, even a little, to the people that just liked playing soccer, or just liked watching movies/cartoons that they were when they were younger. Now the sports are to show off to women, and the movies need "sexytime" with hollywood starlets or they lose interest.

Its more complicated in girls, but the pink aisle madness tends to settle down when they get older, usually mid 30s.

[Tiruin]

Dozebôm, please do follow up your conclusions with a professional, because it's coming off to me that you're working with surface-reasoning given the allowance of the internet to branch out for details (which is pretty common with people now) x_x There's a lot more to this than cognitive dissociation and association, alongside past experience with gender roles due to current environment/vicinity (alongside mentions of interest). Gender is not defined by stereotypical norms. :I [Surface-reasoning != Not your capabilities to reason, but the amount of ideas presented to you that can be better worked with when in physical communication with someone else]
Especially given stereotypical American culture as a big influence given it's note as a major world power [and thus its culture being sprayed everywhere--which includes the not-really-nice-bits, especially over the internet and social media at times].
Also there's mixing one's preferences with one's identity x.x which are different things altogether, and that's poking your mind as if it was a seperate entity in its working when that's you and yourself, but I get the humor in it.

Like a nice contending note with experience: Movies :O Good note of masculinity is a nice ol' movie called George in the Jungle, really presents a more 'realistic' view of masculinity with the protagonist instead of a jerk that goes TESTOSTEROOOONE! and stuff.

[wierd]

There are some really nice movies, but most are relegated to the pejorative of "chick flick", when really, they dont belong in that group.

(To me, a "chick flick" is a movie about female wish fulfillment, rather than just good narrative, or evocative story telling.)

An example is Chocolat (2000! not 2016. The one about the itinerant gypsy woman and her daughter that open a french chocolate shop, and improve the lives of the entire french town they are in, before moving on.)

It didnt have flagrant sexytime, or explosions, so it did not appeal to mainstream male audiences. I however, really enjoyed it.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Dozebôm, please do follow up your conclusions with a professional

nooooooooooooooooooooo I just resolved things what do you mean

because it's coming off to me that you're working with surface-reasoning given the allowance of the internet to branch out for details (which is pretty common with people now) x_x

I actually didn't use the internet to come to this conclusion. Also what do you mean I'm not an expert on psychology... fine it might be useful to see a professional, if you think that's best, I'm just... embarrassed to talk to RL people about this.

There's a lot more to this than cognitive dissociation and association, alongside past experience with gender roles due to current environment/vicinity (alongside mentions of interest). Gender is not defined by stereotypical norms. :I

But that's the point. If I "unlink" the various stereotypes and roles from gender itself, that's good right?

[Surface-reasoning != Not your capabilities to reason, but the amount of ideas presented to you that can be better worked with when in physical communication with someone else]

So you're saying that talking > typing for this kind of conversation?

Especially given stereotypical American culture as a big influence given it's note as a major world power [and thus its culture being sprayed everywhere--which includes the not-really-nice-bits, especially over the internet and social media at times.]

So unlinking the stereotypes from gender would help, right? That's what I'm doing.

Also there's mixing one's preferences with one's identity x.x which are different things altogether,

Again, did I write that correctly? Because the whole point of Project Disassociate was to distinguish between all those things. They are different.

and that's poking your mind as if it was a seperate entity in its working when that's you and yourself, but I get the humor in it.

humor? it is SCIENTIFIC OBJECTIVITY what do you mean that's impossible, thinking of myself as somebody else cannot possibly go wrong

[Kansa]

Heh, it could be worse Kansa.

You could be like me, and have the hormones flow, grow the beard and all the hair-- and watch perplexed at how all your peers lose their ever loving minds, while you remain basically the same.

(and then mis-attribute your lack of interest in boobies as being a secret interest in penis, when the idea is equally alien to you.)

Hell, I am in my late 30s, and STILL haven't had that kind of transition to "male-ness."

Testosterone isn't a bad thing, it increases your muscle mass, helps you stay thin, and helps regulate your metabolism as an adult. Sure, it makes you grow hair, but meh-- Unless you are mortified by having said hair, it isn't that bad. You can shave off hair. Estrogen? That makes you grow boobies, and those are harder to deal with I understand. I'll take the testosterone. If I want to get rid of the hair, there are any number of inexpensive products one can use, in the comfort and privacy of one's home.

Dont worry about the physical nitty gritty of growing up, or growing older. Just follow the advice of the old bard-- "Above all else, to thine own self be true."

It could be worse yeah.

The hair and the voice are the main things, I can shave off the hair at least (Though I wish I had the courage to just do it  ). The voice is more difficult but at least it sounds better when I don't actually listen to it recorded.

[Shadowlord]

Voice changes and bone structure changes from male puberty don't reverse themselves if/when you start taking female hormones (iirc it's actually some form of estrogen + an androgen-blocker).

(Also facial hair but that's permanently removable if you have enough money)

[Kansa]

That's a bit disheartening, I guess there's not really much I can do about those now then. Hopefully I can at least learn how to change the voice.

[wierd]

Dozebôm, please do follow up your conclusions with a professional

nooooooooooooooooooooo I just resolved things what do you mean

because it's coming off to me that you're working with surface-reasoning given the allowance of the internet to branch out for details (which is pretty common with people now) x_x

I actually didn't use the internet to come to this conclusion. Also what do you mean I'm not an expert on psychology... fine it might be useful to see a professional, if you think that's best, I'm just... embarrassed to talk to RL people about this.

There's a lot more to this than cognitive dissociation and association, alongside past experience with gender roles due to current environment/vicinity (alongside mentions of interest). Gender is not defined by stereotypical norms. :I

But that's the point. If I "unlink" the various stereotypes and roles from gender itself, that's good right?

[Surface-reasoning != Not your capabilities to reason, but the amount of ideas presented to you that can be better worked with when in physical communication with someone else]

So you're saying that talking > typing for this kind of conversation?

Especially given stereotypical American culture as a big influence given it's note as a major world power [and thus its culture being sprayed everywhere--which includes the not-really-nice-bits, especially over the internet and social media at times.]

So unlinking the stereotypes from gender would help, right? That's what I'm doing.

Also there's mixing one's preferences with one's identity x.x which are different things altogether,

Again, did I write that correctly? Because the whole point of Project Disassociate was to distinguish between all those things. They are different.

and that's poking your mind as if it was a seperate entity in its working when that's you and yourself, but I get the humor in it.

humor? it is SCIENTIFIC OBJECTIVITY what do you mean that's impossible, thinking of myself as somebody else cannot possibly go wrong

Tir has a point on the last bit.  I dont think about myself from an imposed outside perspective, I just accept what and who I am, and do not succumb to what others think I should be.  Those are not the same thing.  If I want to play with crochet and knitting as relaxing hobbies, there is nothing wrong with that. Men have been working with textiles for centuries, the gender bias is nearly entirely a socially imposed construct-- etc.

Kansa:

For the voice, adult males have this thing called falsetto. (women too, but it is most pronounced in men.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsetto

Like other physical tasks, if you use your falsetto frequently, or even preferentially, you will find it becomes your default modal voice.

It need not sound harsh or unnatural either, if you learn good control with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iox2ypl5jSg

also this kid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7dPlCzUG44

My natural range is baritone, which is between tenor and bass, but I have very good control of my falsetto. I can hit ALL of the tenor range, and some of the alto range, and do it well.  I might be coaxed into giving a sample if you want.

[Solifuge]

Actually, hormones mediate most of the things we think of as male or female appearance. Facial and body hair stops entirely, or otherwise gets markedly thinner to what's normal for females in your family when on DHT blocking antiandrogens. Bone structure is what it is, but face and body shape are significantly changed by muscle mass and fat deposits, which change based on hormones. Male and Female voices have an octave or more of vocal overlap, and with training anyone can learn to speak and even sing in a range suitable for their identity. That aside, there's also surgical options for all of the above, if that's your preference or if you have the money.

On the near future side: in the lab, researchers have even begun to enable organ transdifferentiation and fertility in Post-Puberty mice using the body's natural Sex-Deciding and Maintaining mechanisms; the same ones that enable some species to change sex in adulthood exist in Mammals, but are just not being used by the body. Mammals experience more physical differences between the sexes which might not change, but research suggests they'd be able to produce their own hormones, develop secondary traits, and potentially have kids as their identifying sex with a bit of medical assistance.

As a side note, contrary to what society tells people by things like the word "pass", trans people don't need to make others believe they are a cisgendered person as part of being Trans. Some transmen don't have deep voices, beards, or masculine shoulders; some transwomen have bushy eyebrows, low voices, stubble, and big hands. These exact same things happen in Cisgendered people too. Bodies don't have gender, and not fitting an arbitrary beauty-standard, or having a body that's different than other people of your gender doesn't make you less valid in your identity, or any less of a Man, Woman, or Person.

Edit: Wierd, relying on falsetto is generally considered bad advice for a transperson trying to pass as Cis; it lacks overtones, and sounds tin-ish and thin, and like a person doing a silly or cartoon voice. Better to practice intonation, and use your upper comfortable range; men and women have overlap in half or more of their range. The tricky thing to learn is intonation, "resonance" or timbre, and manner of speaking.

[Tiruin]

[...]
As a side note, contrary to what society tells people by things like the word "pass", trans people don't need to make others believe they are a cisgendered person as part of being Trans. Some transmen don't have deep voices, beards, or masculine shoulders; some transwomen have bushy eyebrows, low voices, stubble, and big hands. These exact same things happen in Cisgendered people too. Bodies don't have gender, and not fitting an arbitrary beauty-standard, or having a body that's different than other people of your gender doesn't make you less valid in your identity, or any less of a Man, Woman, or Person.

This last part (along with transposing the word 'clothes' for 'bodies' in regards to gender) is a lot of my thoughts onto there \o/ Rigid physical stereotypy, or the conceptual 'face value' is sometimes a hindrance too when used as one's perception onto others' perception onto them.

[wierd]

Actually, hormones meditate most of the things we think of as male or female appearance. Facial and body hair stops entirely, or otherwise gets markedly thinner to what's normal for females in your family when on DHT blocking antiandrogens. Bone structure is what it is, but face and body shape are significantly changed by muscle mass and fat deposits, which change based on hormones. Male and Female voices have an octave or more of vocal overlap, and with training anyone can learn to speak and even sing in a range suitable for their identity. That aside, there's also surgical options for all of the above, if that's your preference or if you have the money.

On the near future side: in the lab, researchers have even begun to enable organ transdifferentiation and fertility in Post-Puberty mice using the body's natural Sex-Deciding and Maintaining mechanisms; the same ones that enable some species to change sex in adulthood exist in Mammals, but are just not being used by the body. Mammals experience more physical differences between the sexes which might not change, but research suggests they'd be able to produce their own hormones, develop secondary traits, and potentially have kids as their identifying sex with a bit of medical assistance.

As a side note, contrary to what society tells people by things like the word "pass", trans people don't need to make others believe they are a cisgendered person as part of being Trans. Some transmen don't have deep voices, beards, or masculine shoulders; some transwomen have bushy eyebrows, low voices, stubble, and big hands. These exact same things happen in Cisgendered people too. Bodies don't have gender, and not fitting an arbitrary beauty-standard, or having a body that's different than other people of your gender doesn't make you less valid in your identity, or any less of a Man, Woman, or Person.

Edit: Wierd, relying on falsetto is generally considered bad advice for a transperson trying to pass as Cis; it lacks overtones, and sounds tin-ish and thin, and like a person doing a silly or cartoon voice. Better to practice intonation, and use your upper comfortable range; men and women have overlap in half or more of their range. The tricky thing to learn is intonation, "resonance" or timbre, and manner of speaking.

I did not mean the really really false sounding kind.  More, practice using upper registers. Also, falsetto need not sound thin or airy. With proper voice training, it can produce very rich sound. Dont practice in public of course, it sounds weird when not well used, but it is normal and accepted by most to use it for pets, which can overcome the "wtf?" people have when they hear it when unpracticed, and gives a good use case for training. When used right, you should feel some 'rumble' in your throat. if you just feel tight, you are not doing it right. It is that secondary vibration (rumble) that gives natural timbre. Hard to explain, you just have to pay attention to normal vocalization, and if you dont feel that same vibration, you are not using your full vocal chords, and will get the unnatural sound. Practice will give you control of the upper registers with proper timbre. 

[Shadowlord]

I used it to talk to pets, but, well, I sounded kind of like Elmo for some reason. :V

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I used it to talk to pets, but, well, I sounded kind of like Elmo for some reason. :V

Was your pet a cow-cat?

[TempAcc]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, I always found the voice gymnastics some transpeople do to try and pass to be kinda silly. I mean, I can kinda understand the reasons behind it, but the fact it more often than not fall into the general stereotype most people have of trans people prob doenst help much.

One of my friends was worried about her voice during transition. I told her she shouldn't worry because she always sounded like a slut to me.

I am very loving friend.

Man would I have a lot of trouble if I was a trans person, since my voice is a combination of south park and serial murderer. I wish I sounded more like JEREMY IRONS

[wierd]

"elmo" sounds thin, airy, and unnatural, because there is no secondary vibration in the voice.

Hard to explain.

Put your fingers on your throat, and talk like elmo. You will feel very little vibration, if any at all. That is because the actual vocal chords are not vibrating, just the outer mucosa on them. Now, talk normally. You will feel strong vibration with your fingers. There is a lot of secondary and tertiary vibration in normal vocalization, because the whole chord is used. Now, try talking like elmo, but lower the tone carefully until you feel the vibration. You will likely find there is a 'break' in the voice. This is normal. It will be hard to have full timbre in upper registers at first, but with practice the range can be extended until the 'break' between full voice and airy-fake falsetto vanishes.

Again, short of japanese cliches, women dont sound like they breathe pure helium. Lots of brassy tones in female voices. 

Some women even have downright manly voices. There is a lot of overlap. You do NOT want to sound like michael jackson. If you have to force it, it will sound forced.