Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hops]

I mean, as nice as it is to employ everyone, an elderly person is kind of a liability. You can't expect as much reliability from them as younger people because there's a real possibility they'll just up and die instead of coming to work.

[TheBiggerFish]

I do agree.
It's not surprising that loneliness and feelings of being useless are the number one reason for depression amongst the elderly (or amongst unemplyed in general).
What's really scary is, that our government now wants to approve euthanasia on grounds of 'fulfilled life'. In other words, they want to make it legal to euthanize someone who is not physically ill, but just old, bored and lonely.

That is terrifying and terrifyingly stupid.

Why not just make it not mandatory to retire?

I mean, as nice as it is to employ everyone, an elderly person is kind of a liability. You can't expect as much reliability from them as younger people because there's a real possibility they'll just up and die instead of coming to work.

People who might 'up and die' generally aren't working or are susceptible to the same risks as younger workers.

[martinuzz]

But that's literally the entire point of LGBTQ groups? If we weren't considered the odd one out in society then the need for LGBTQ groups would disappear.

That does not mean that you need to affirm this view by calling yourself queer. LGBT is as neutral as it gets. It's purely a descriptor.

Maybe in the future where LGBTQ groups are rebranded as groups promoting tolerance for different gender and sexual expressions rather than needing to champion the minority, maybe.

Ideally, LGBTQ groups would become just another subculture, for some LGBTQ who feel the need to identify with a social structure like that, just like skaters, hardrockers and preppers. The rest of the LGBTQ will have fully integrated in society and be regarded as just as normal as anyone else.

[Rolepgeek]

But that's literally the entire point of LGBTQ groups? If we weren't considered the odd one out in society then the need for LGBTQ groups would disappear.

That does not mean that you need to affirm this view by calling yourself queer. LGBT is as neutral as it gets. It's purely a descriptor.

Queer is intended to be a term that has been 'taken back', as the term 'dyke' has by some lesbian communities, to a lesser extent (dyke's still more of a slur than queer is). Queer is still used as a derogatory insult, but it's useful as a way to catch all the folks who weren't represented by one of the first four letters and feel excluded. When people demand that every possible identity have it's own letter is where you get the ridiculous acronyms like LGBTQQIAASSD or whatever. Queer can be used in a derogatory fashion, and some people don't feel comfortable with identifying as that, which is where that whole thing comes from, but at a certain point I have to just say 'no, I'm sorry, I'm not going to remember every possible combination of suffixes and prefixes and what all the cultural connotations are.'

But then, I don't really care too much about the terms, personally, others are often different. I just say I'm bi because it was the first term I knew about which meant you liked multiple genders, and stuck with it. Some people would probably tell me I'm not bi, I'm pan or something because of that and I'll just shrug and move on.

[TempAcc]

I know a fair bit of people who willingly distanced themselves from LGBT etc groups simply because said groups seem to be doing exactly the opposite to any real attempt at normalizing non hetero people. There's a huge focus on "queer culture" and creating different terms for different people and forming different minority groups. LGBT movements have thrown away the "making society accept us" objective a long time ago, nowadays its more about giving political leverage to whoever pleases the perceived movement leaders the most, IE welcome to the cesspit in which pretty much every minority group in the west has fallen into, the marvel of identity culture.

Its got to the point I see people being marginalized inside LGBT groups simply because they disagree about the direction the movements are taking. Ahah, how dare you disagree with us, your overlords! Only we know whats best for you, so vote for the people we want you to vote or get out! ~etc.

Most people don't even fucking care what society at large thinks of them when it won't get them killed or seriously marginalized, they just want to be accepted and loved by their family and friends, and there's no minority group in the face of the earth that can give them that.

[martinuzz]

oops wrong thread

[Solifuge]

Ideally, LGBTQ groups would become just another subculture, for some LGBTQ who feel the need to identify with a social structure like that, just like skaters, hardrockers and preppers. The rest of the LGBTQ will have fully integrated in society and be regarded as just as normal as anyone else.

If only we stopped using the word "black" to describe people. Then people wouldn't see race anymore :y

Seriously though, I like Queer. Clinical acronyms confuse people, and limit the definition to certain "types of people" unnecessarily. Queer is cute, simple, inclusive, and I like that it's been taken back; turning a word once used as derogatory into a proud lable is another way to erase old meanings and undermine old hate.

What's really scary is, that our government now wants to approve euthanasia on grounds of 'fulfilled life'. In other words, they want to make it legal to euthanize someone who is not physically ill, but just old, bored and lonely.

Don't want to derail here... but...

I gather that you meant that to be sad or scary, but they're not taking about Big Government being allowed to kill old people against their will. They're talking letting quietly suffering people choose suicide for themselves, which is a matter of respect and dignity

I'm glad we're getting around to assisted suicide reform. Check out Terry Pratchett's documentary on euthanasia, or look up what he had to say on choosing to die rather than suffer through dementia and Alzheimer's. It lets people say goodbye while they can, and restricts needless suffering for no end. Why should other people get to decide whether your life is worth living for you? And punish your family legally if you choose to take your own life, or seek help in so doing.

[spümpkin]

If there is one thing I find odd about female behavior it is probably the open hostility they will sometimes show each other.

It is hard to grasp at exactly what I mean but goodness... The fury between two women is intense even when all they do is look at each other.

Mind you I am sure guys do it too... and my experience with it has more to do with my two sisters and the obviously always accurate television. So yeah I have far too limited experience it.

Still though... nothing is more scary than a woman's ire. Guys get stand offish... Women get all "I will destroy you".

I've always found women to be more slyly hostile, while guys are more likely to go up and threaten someone.

I know a fair bit of people who willingly distanced themselves from LGBT etc groups simply because said groups seem to be doing exactly the opposite to any real attempt at normalizing non hetero people. There's a huge focus on "queer culture" and creating different terms for different people and forming different minority groups. LGBT movements have thrown away the "making society accept us" objective a long time ago, nowadays its more about giving political leverage to whoever pleases the perceived movement leaders the most, IE welcome to the cesspit in which pretty much every minority group in the west has fallen into, the marvel of identity culture.

Its got to the point I see people being marginalized inside LGBT groups simply because they disagree about the direction the movements are taking. Ahah, how dare you disagree with us, your overlords! Only we know whats best for you, so vote for the people we want you to vote or get out! ~etc.

Most people don't even fucking care what society at large thinks of them when it won't get them killed or seriously marginalized, they just want to be accepted and loved by their family and friends, and there's no minority group in the face of the earth that can give them that.

I kinda agree with that, but I just kinda go to LGBT groups to make friends etc. :v It's just nice to have the support of people, and oftentimes non-LGBT people can have a hard time adjusting to that. My two best friends, still, in private, call me by male pronouns, because they're used to it. I don't blame them, but it's nice to be able to go to a place where I'm understood :v

Also, most of my best friends are queer in some way, so it's getting me somewhere. I would like things to be normalised, but honestly...

Most people don't even fucking care what society at large thinks of them when it won't get them killed or seriously marginalized, they just want to be accepted and loved by their family and friends, and there's no minority group in the face of the earth that can give them that.

:v

This is kinda the case for me, and while going there isn't making me be more accepted by anyone, my parents are more open to it now, and open to things like wearing feminine clothes at home, etc. I think it just makes it more legitimate for them, you know?

[martinuzz]

I gather that you meant that to be sad our scary, but they're not taking about Big Government being allowed to kill old people against their will. They're talking letting quietly suffering people choose suicide for themselves, which is a matter of respect and dignity.

No I'm not talking about Big Government either, but I did use the expression 'euthanize someone' purposedly as is though. Suicide by pill of Drion, as you describe is still illegal over here. Euthanasia requires a doctor administering it, with a whole convoy of at least one other independent doctor, and a bunch of healthcare and legal workers double and triple checking every part of the procedure. And while I personally do not object to euthanasia for those afflicted by an incurable disease, even for some mental disorders, I do not approve allowing people to be euthanized because they feel they are left baggage and useless trough societal neglect and redundancy. Thirty years of neo-liberal budget cuts after budget cuts on elderly care have left a lot of elderly who aren't very rich rotting away in elderly homes with no activities organized for them, or worse, only being allowed to go to the bathroom once a day because of lack of staff, and being forced to wear diapers and called incontinent at that. Add that to children taking their parents in or spending time with them having become a thing of the past in career-driven lives.

And then, when elderly who are left and forgotten get so saddened by this that they say their life is complete and they want to die, the government's reaction is "we should liberalize euthanasia even further to include these people", instead of "let's fix the root of their problem and give them some purpose and decency for their old days". Really. That has nothing to do with 'letting quietly suffering people choose for themselves', with all due respect. The law already provides for those, albeit in a less than perfect way.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

I can see how the conjunction of "makes old people depressed" and "lets old, depressed people commit suicide" is bad, but legalizing suicide is pretty much universally good, as long as the process and paperwork take long enough for you to change your mind. Everybody can commit suicide if they want to. I could be dead by the end of the day. If someone really wants to die, they'll kill themselves. Why not provide a better, faster-in-terms-of-actual-death, slower-in-terms-of-decision-to-death-time, painless, and more dignified way to go?

Armokdammit, this is the wrong thread for this discussion. If you want to continue, let's move it to my Philosophy and Ethics thread. (Or is it just Philosophy? I don't give a carp, it's Philosophy and Ethics now.)

[TheBiggerFish]

You have one of those?

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

Totally! Necro-ing the Philosophy thread is better than derailing this one IMO.

[martinuzz]

In Morocco, two girls, 16 and 17 were photographed while kissing each other, and the photograph sent to their parents. Their parents reported them to the police.
They were arrested and put in adult prison.
This led to an outrage amongst the younger half of the Moroccan population, which has already resulted in the girls being released from (adult) jail, because authorities feared a revolution in the streets. Their lawyer says however, that it is not possible for them to get acquitted, but he is going to plea for a conditional conviction, so they won't need to return to jail.

It has however greatly openend he debate in Morocco about LGBT rights, with many people demanding the medieval laws be abolished and sexual freedom accepted by law. Many heterosexuals are showing their support by making intimate same sex photos with a 'we are heterosexual and we support LGBT' caption.

[hops]

TFW Moroccans are more modern than white people.

[martinuzz]

It's sad though that the Moroccan immigrant children and grandchildren in the Netherlands do not follow that trend. Instead, it's the exact opposite. Studies show the younger generation Dutch Moroccans are becoming more and more orthodox in their beliefs, and LGBT tolerance is near zero.