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Author Topic: Gender/sexuality etc. - What Even Is A Gender Anyway  (Read 142206 times)

Starver

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1020 on: December 02, 2016, 01:18:06 am »

Quote
rape is when somthing gets inserted against ones will, and is of a sexual nature

So... using this definition, a woman who forces herself upon someone... do not constitute rape. Whether it be a man or another woman.
Only if you read it as "...when something gets inserted (into a person) against (that particular person's) will..."

I think it was intended to be "...when something gets inserted (into either party) against (one party's) will..." and, whether or not I would have assumed that fuller meaning at first sight, I think it quite clearly lends itself to this broader coverage upon testing against F>M potential-rape.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 01:21:27 am by Starver »
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wierd

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1021 on: December 02, 2016, 01:58:45 am »

Except here is kind of the thing... The definition of rape is vague.

"Have you ever been coerced into a sexual encounter?"

But lets go further lets use Wierd's definition of rape for a moment here

Quote
rape is when somthing gets inserted against ones will, and is of a sexual nature

So... using this definition, a woman who forces herself upon someone... do not constitute rape. Whether it be a man or another woman.

---

That is why I never EVER give much credence to ANY survey on this subject. It is far too easy to manipulate the numbers both up and down AND it is far too easy to have the numbers be wildly inaccurate as well.

And this isn't even getting into "assault and harassment" territory, because even the courts have problems telling which is which sometimes.

For example you know those famos scenes where a woman is insulted and splashes her beverage all over a man's head? Legally that is assault if I remember correctly. How many people would accept that as assault on a survey?


BZZT-- WRONG.  If she forces herself on a dude, she is forcing his dick up her cooch. That is penetration, and it is rape. HE does not have to be the one penetrated.

If a woman goes down on another woman without her consent, there are many ways it is still penetration. Be it with tongue, with finger, with scissor style clit juices, whatever. The other woman does not want any of that, and it happens. RAPE.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 02:07:19 am by wierd »
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Reelya

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1022 on: December 02, 2016, 02:42:21 am »

Reminds me of the study that showed that the difference in negotiated wages for the same position across genders is about 7%. Coincidentally, if you compare the wage gap between men and women across the same job (rather than just doing a straight "average wage"), the gap goes from something like the 23% that it's usually stated to be to around... 7%.

Though don't be misled; the 23% does reflect that women are also employed in jobs that pay less than the jobs that men are generally employed in, though that's a whole other beast to tackle. So you have a gap within the same career that's explained through wage negotiating, and a gap without the same career (to clarify, using a particularly odd definition of "without" here; think the phrase "within and without" to get an idea of what it is) that's explained by the gender ratio across professions skewing towards men in higher-paying career paths (unsure on the statistics of this one here).

I don't know why I thought to bring this up, but eh. There's the nuance for the usual statistic of the "wage gap", and to no surprise, it's not as clear-cut as you'd expect.

Yeah, i wrote about some confounding factors before. For example, maternity leave. It costs money to provide leave (even unpaid leave costs companies money). Since it's almost always mothers who take leave for children, then it's the companies that hire more women that are hit with the costs. These costs come off the bottom line, reduce profitability,  and those costs are born by everyone in the company. And of course, this disproportionately affects other women, whether or not they even want kids.

This is why I think laws that compare paychecks from male and female employees of the same company (Equal pay act 1963) haven't actually uncovered widespread discrimination. If a woman will do the same job for 20% less than a man, why would you hire any men? You just set a single wage that attracts enough people to fill your jobs and be done with it. That's just business sense. The really big disparities are between different companies due to multiple economic pressures, and different social norms.

And that's not something you can just legislate away. The core problem is that companies with mainly male employees don't pay their fair share for childcare, that's born by the mother's companies. And the unbalanced costs feed into wage differentials. Yet our response is actually to launch intrusive investigations of the companies hiring women to see that they're paying "fair wages". Which is just piling even more costs onto companies for hiring women.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 03:10:10 am by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1023 on: December 02, 2016, 03:22:25 am »

BZZT-- WRONG.

And the moment you had to correct it, it loses its point.
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wierd

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1024 on: December 02, 2016, 03:30:02 am »

BZZT-- WRONG.

And the moment you had to correct it, it loses its point.

I was meaning, "No, you are interpreting that wrong, I worded it carefully and you are purposefully avoiding that word choice in your twisted interpretation."
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Neonivek

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1025 on: December 02, 2016, 03:42:42 am »

BZZT-- WRONG.

And the moment you had to correct it, it loses its point.

I was meaning, "No, you are interpreting that wrong, I worded it carefully and you are purposefully avoiding that word choice in your twisted interpretation."

Yes I did intentionally misinterpret your definition, that is the point.

The fact that you had to correct me shows the major weaknesses in the definition, rather then it being self-evident.

Yet the better part is.. The more direct you are and the more precise you are with the definition... The LESS people will apply it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 03:49:20 am by Neonivek »
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1026 on: December 02, 2016, 08:20:49 pm »

Is sex even well-defined? Because rape is sex that is not wanted by one participant, and sexual assault is not-sex but related to sex, that's the distinction right? So touching someone's stuff isn't sex, but it's related, making it sexual assault...

Is showing somebody else your stuff against the law? I could see something like that being a law... indecent exposure or similar? But that has its own problems, because the law means policing what women wear, but !the law means men can do creepy stuff showings to children, and gendered-law is sexist (couldn't a woman do creepy stuff showings to children?)
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wierd

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1027 on: December 02, 2016, 08:22:30 pm »

Indecent exposure is a crime, yes.

There is grey area, because nudists.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1028 on: December 02, 2016, 08:27:07 pm »

Indecent exposure is a crime, yes.

There is grey area, because nudists.
How well is the gray area defined in American law?

(By the way, because we're discussing pedophilic stuffshowers, your personal text just took on a new meaning... one that I'd rather not consider anymore. :P)
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

wierd

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1029 on: December 02, 2016, 08:33:50 pm »

I mean I like to eat them in a rich reduction glaze sauce, or possibly with hollandaise. ;)

As for how grey?
Nudists tend to be congenial, and only practice their way of life away from those it would upset. They have beaches and colonies that they tend to stick to.

It isn't like they show up at Walmart in the nude.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1030 on: December 02, 2016, 08:35:39 pm »

I mean I like to eat them in a rich reduction glaze sauce, or possibly with hollandaise. ;)

As for how grey?
Nudists tend to be congenial, and only practice their way of life away from those it would upset. They have beaches and colonies that they tend to stick to.

It isn't like they show up at Walmart in the nude.
So as long as it's private property, and it's not the middle of town on someone's lawn, or if nobody minds, they don't get in trouble? Works for me...
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

x2yzh9

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Philosophical Asparagus
« Reply #1031 on: December 03, 2016, 10:26:06 am »

It isn't like they show up at Walmart in the nude.
can I sig this?

TheBiggerFish

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Rolan7

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Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - Freud is WATCHING YOU, *eyebrow waggle*
« Reply #1034 on: December 06, 2016, 07:39:49 pm »

I'd... rather such treatment require informed consent, IE no minors being coerced into it.  I've decided not to seek such treatment, but I get why people would.

Well except for all the evidence that it's completely ineffectual, and just messes people up.  But if it did work, I'd understand.

So yeah, a total ban is so much better than a practice that has completely failed peer review.  (:
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