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[Reelya]

Basically a "Yang" is 100 coins of currency (and yes they do show a "yang" in the show. It is about 100 coins)

That's one tenth of a silver Tael then. Which is this:

But it's definitely possible that people earned only ~1 of those per month. The price of rice in cicra 1700 quoted here is 1.92 tael per shi. Where a "shi" is 80kg. so you're getting about 42kg of rice for one tael, or about 4.2kg of rice per mace ("yang"). The real question is whether someone could live on just 140g of rice per day?

[Neonivek]

I honestly have no idea why the show uses "Yang" outside translation errors...

I mean I know the show doesn't take place in "China Proper" at the time (It takes place outside of Ming China... Jianning or something)

Though it was made by South Korea... It is possible it is a shortcut or Yang just does refer to 1/10th of a String.

But it's definitely possible that people earned only ~1 of those per month, which would be equal to 3.78 grams of silver, or about $2.50 per month worth. You'd just need to scale down what that would equal in modern money a bit more

It is REALLY hard to scale things to modern money because everything in the market is so skewed to what we are used to.

Basket of Goods are REALLY cheap but luxuries are really expensive. Anything that is cheap usually has a reason to be cheap... even clothes can be expensive...

I'd also mention how a lot of people don't even pay taxes in money... but given that the "Rice Tax" is typically used to feed people in famine (well supposed to anyhow) it is possible that it is an alternative payment then it is payment made because the farmers are so poor.

I also find it interesting that in the show the typical Officer pay was considered low, lower then what you can raise a family on... so taking bribes or confiscating evidence was a way to make it work.

[Reelya]

Yang is just a local archaic currency, they're using it so that Koreans will get it.

EDIT: hold up, on the Yang wikipedia page they give a weight in silver for it. A Korean 5 yang coin contained 416 grains of silver. A "grain" is about 65 milligrams, so the 5 Yang coin was 27 grams of silver, or about half a tael's worth. That means that the Korean Yang was indeed the same amount of silver as the Chinese mace.

[Neonivek]

Yang is just a local archaic currency, they're using it so that Koreans will get it.

Though to admit out of any show that had to use non-modern currency... I'll give the show credit and say that I actually feel like "I" could use that money and understand the pricing system.

It isn't like a Denarii in Xena.

A meal in that show probably costs about 5 coins.

[Neonivek]

OHHHHHHHHH!!!

Ok... NOW it makes TOTAL sense that they would use Yangs!

The show takes place in Joseon.

I have no idea why I thought it was part of China (though it might have been at the time... In a similar way that Athens was part of Greece in spite being completely independent)...

Though they do visit Ming China at one point.

hold up, on the Yang wikipedia page they give a weight in silver for it. A Korean 5 yang coin contained 416 grains of silver. A "grain" is about 65 milligrams, so the 5 Yang coin was 27 grams of silver, or about half a tael's worth. That means that the Korean Yang was indeed the same amount of silver as the Chinese mace

Honestly it makes TOTAL sense. The amount of cross-culture between them is rather immense... Plus they had such a close trading partnership at the time.

Now I wish I knew what a Korean Ninja was called... Or as the show calls them... A "Spy"

Edit: Yep he is an allusion as in the show his exact name is Park-Tae Soo

---

Though the show takes place around 1540-1560...

I will say... There is some WEIRD temporal butchery going on. As a tiny bit of research shows the show placing some historical figures WAAAAAAY out of time they should have appeared.

Park Mun-Su a 17th century figure for example is a prominent character. Then again in the show's defense... he might be an allusion to the historical figure and not meant to actually be him.

Also it explains why the "Chinese Ninjas" are never called by the correct names... Because they are Korean...

----

"Korea became a tributary state of the Ming dynasty from 1392 to 1637."

That answers my question.

Though to admit... I knew the tributary aspect.

In fact one of the reasons why the government had take over the gold industry (making it illegal to mine gold yourself) was because if Joseon (or Korea) harvested more gold... the tribute would increase.

[Reelya]

Ninja is a Japanese word however. This is the chinese equivalent:
http://dictionary.pinpinchinese.com/definitions/t/%E5%BF%8D%E8%80%85-renzhe

The main difference from a bit of a google, is that chinese assassins relied on disguise and operated during daytime, whereas Japanese ninja operated during the night and relied on concealment. That was because China was might highly populated and concentrated in large cities, where Japan had pockets of population and had many separated noble's compounds.

[Neonivek]

Well Ninjas had no "One" method and neither did the Chinese assassins (they really could just run up to you and kill you out of disguise).

Many ninjas did what any typical assassin did which was join was a simple staff member and wait for an opportunity to present itself. Just that those stories aren't all that interesting.

Though another reason for broad daylight is because Lords really hunker down in their homes as they are often built like fortresses... It is quite tough to sneak into one of them, get past all the guards, and then assassinate them. The best time to assassinate a lord is when they are moving around during the day. This was likely even true for Ninjas.

It is why the whole "Ninja stealth" is often considered a myth. Since that wouldn't be their primary tool, yet it is what they are known for.

[Neonivek]

Man if there is one thing anime just cannot do... it is egalitarianism or rather that "Anyone can be great at something if they try hard enough" mentality.

For those who don't know Japan is a very elitist society as a whole. They fully believe in inherent talent and advantages make you outright better then everyone else who would never be able to keep up. This gets translated into their media quite frequently with characters who are secretly super amazing.

For example Ichigo being a half-everything... Gundam Protagonists almost always being New-Types (genetically engineered super DUPER soldiers... I added duper because some of the stuff they get away with later is insane... Like psychic blasts).

Yet every once in a while a anime wants to preach a egalitarian ideal of anyone can do it. Yet anime almost ALWAYS messes this up. For example
-Naruto: He is presented as a loser... In spite not only having a fox demon inside him but also is part of one of the most powerful clans (and ninja genes do give power). By all means he IS one of the elites.

As well a common one is to just make the character completely and utterly inhuman and capable of putting such extreme amounts of effort into something without suffering fatigue, burn out, or what have you at all. Because you know... A person with unnatural levels of mental, physical, and emotional endurance isn't an elite (sarcasm).

Kindaichi World's Mightiest Diciple is the biggest example of this. The anime beats us over the head again and again that he "Has no talent for martial arts" as a way of making him a everyday sort of person right? Except he literally has the talent endurance meaning that he can withstand training that would kill any other martial artist... Which no offense... Is like saying "I don't have the talent for cooking, I just have a talent for learning how to cook".

---

Now I am going to be fair and present two big exceptions to this.

1) Initial D: In an episode where our protagonist faces off against a race car driver they actually go out of their way to say that Talent is more of an initial boost and after a certain point it is effort. It is why in spite of the fact that the racer himself is no where near as talented as our protagonist, why he is better... because talent itself only brings you so far and they both reached the other end.

2) Legend of Galactic Heroes: What I love about this series is how it treats every single origin as completely valid in its own right. The super elite noble with talent bred into him is equal to the from nowhere smart guy who studies tactics... And is equal to the grizzled old war vet who has seen their fair share of war. MOST shows pick what they consider to be valid or invalid... but no everything goes.

[Reelya]

There are different worldviews on the road to success, don't buy into the hype of any one particular one.

I think the sentiment, "anyone can be #1 if they just try hard enough" is bullshit, and potentially harmful bullshit at that. Societies which buy into the individual success mantra also have very high levels or poor self-esteem, depression and suicide rates compared to societies which blame "the gods" or "fate" for success or failure. When only a small number of people can be deemed a "success" who deserved it through their own efforts, then everyone else gets labeled a failure. There are few accolades for the guy who got the silver medal for example, even though it's pretty amazing to do so.

It's not "egalitarianism" - it's another form of elitism, but it gives the individual the praise for success instead of fate. They sell it as egalitarianism though, because it basically exalts those on the top of society. By praising the "winners" for earning success, we also implicitly blame the "losers" for not earning success.

There are two different worldview extremes we can consider:

- people who succeed were naturally blessed with talent/luck (this is an older worldview). People who don't succeed were "unfortunates" - those not blessed by the gods / luck.

- people who succeed did so just through their own efforts (modern capitalist worldview). People who don't succeed were "losers" - those who didn't earn / deserve success.

Both worldviews have their own pros and cons.

[Neonivek]

It has nothing to do with which one I buy into.

It has more to do with the fact that Anime cannot handle its own plots.

Always giving people who are meant to be a sort of stand in for the everyman some sort of talent or inhuman abilities that make them far FAR away from ordinary as far as the setting is concerned.

Basically imagine if Batman had super powers and was still praised as having no powers... and you get the general area of my observation.

[Reelya]

What are the counter examples from Western media then?

Star Wars? Nope, Luke inherits The Force, making him super-special himself.

If your comparing anime to slice of life or real-life drama, then that's not a fair comparision, since most animes are aiming to be in the genre of heroic fiction.

EDIT: though I've argued before that most of those shonen series you're using as examples are the equivalent of super-hero comics, so they should be compared to superheroes. Naruto is a superhero complaining that he's gained superpowers and is thus not an "everyman" doesn't make sense.

[Neonivek]

What are the counter examples from Western media then?

Star Wars? Nope, Luke inherits The Force, making him super-special himself.

The West doesn't have many prominent examples because we don't really have a strong idea of a commoner versus genius that Japan does.

A ordinary farmer who becomes a world stage musician isn't something that would need to be explained in western media, we would just accept it because why couldn't a common farmer do that?

While in Japan you would either need to focus on how much of an unbridled genius or effort monster he is or else they will just reject the notion immediately.

Heck look at the book Hairy Potter. Even though a lot of the characters put a lot of weight on breeding and talent the book itself doesn't really care and the reader isn't expected to... Everyone has their own talent. Later on he started to become significantly more talented then everyone else as it went on, but that is more destiny throwing a wrench in there.

---

But let me think really hard...

Ok the best examples of this in Western media can easily be seen in two situations

1) The School setting Popular versus Unpopular

I'll focus on that... In most school settings the popular kids are always pretty much universally disliked while the "unpopular kid" is universally liked by everyone... without any hint of irony or self-awareness.

It is so focused on trying to appeal to the average viewer's "I am ordinary" mentality that it fails to depict what it is attempting to show.

---

Actually that would be where all my examples can come from. Anytime a show is trying to appeal to the audience by making someone else look bad.

---

 

Naruto is a superhero complaining that he's gained superpowers and is thus not an "everyman" doesn't make sense

No he FLAT OUT cannot.

I let out slack to allow a character to gain the powers that a series gives everyone.

Yet Naruto is considered to be a loser by the show for a long time... But has advantages that FAAAAR outstrip everyone else by leaps and bounds and yet is still treated like an Everyman.

If I am watching a Super Hero cartoon... and they call Superman a loser and try to make us feel for how he is exactly like us... While he still has all his super powers and everyone is like a 3rd rate super hero... I am going to call it out.

So in conclusion my issue with Naruto isn't that he is a Ninja (which translates to being a wizard in the setting) since everyone, or everyone who matters, is a Ninja... It is that he is treated as a ordinary ninja when in fact he is a SUPER DUPER Ninja with sprinkles on top.

If Naruto didn't have both his two HUGE overwhelming advantages that makes him an ultrafudge ninja sundae... He wouldn't be on the list as one of the worst examples. In fact he would probably be on the list as a great example.

[Neonivek]

UGH! If there is one thing I like about "A Flower In Prison" a Korean show it is that Lord Yoon, one of the three main villains, is actually a person.

He loves his son, his wife, his daughter, and he has no real desire to hurt the people around him or to push too strongly the desires of royalty. I actually love how family he is, even outright talking to his nephew man to man (who is the Emperor). He can even be appeased through acts of kindness. Yet yes he is a villain non-the-less but he isn't strictly evil... though he certainly will do selfish acts to serve his own ends.

---

Yet right now I am waiting through what I shall call the "Stupid part of the plot"

Basically the male lead took an offer from the villain that thrust him into a position of power that directly opposes another villain.

So our female lead (she is the main character) now thinks he betrayed her and absolutely will not let him explain himself not even for a second... even though letting him talk for a minute would alleviate all the issues.

And I am just sitting there groaning in pain going: "Yes why would he EVER take a position of power... it MUST mean he wants to work with the villains. He couldn't POSSIBLY be biding his time to strike... Your an idiot!"

---

SERIOUSLY Writers of all sorts...

If you want the characters to fight due to a misunderstanding you either have to:
a) Make the misunderstanding understandable to the audience
or
b) Make their irrationalities justified

For example when Pizzazz didn't let her father talk when he showed up with Jem and didn't let him explain himself (He said he was too busy to see her on Father's day... then shows up with Jem)... Yeah that was entirely in character (Pizzazz is hotheaded and has both father issues and abandonment issues) AND understandable with the situation (Jem pulls that garbage all the time, so yeah she really could have got her father to hang with her instead).

I shouldn't see two intelligent characters who trust each other not only suddenly completely doubt another but also not allow the other to speak... when thinking about it for two seconds brings up a lot of alternatives... MAYBE when this JUST happens I can see it... but not a month later when the heat dies down.

It is just creating drama for drama sake... Maybe actually have him betray her directly...

[Harry Baldman]

Ah, the standard romance misunderstanding, where the plot dives into the Idiot Ball Pit with reckless glee, cliches enough in there to splash the first row seats.

By the way, can you preface more of your posts with "UGH!", because that was strangely eye-catching.

[Egan_BW]

UGH! I love reading Neo posts!