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[nenjin]

"Thus but for the grace of God go I" feels like it's slipped some more of late.

[wierd]

Not everyone is Albert Einstein.

Likewise, not everyone can retain wealth.

Assuring that somebody can start out flipping burgers, and become wealthy like warren buffet, by preventing the wealthy from dictating policy, assures anyone who has the skill and ability can be rich, without engaging in the madness of thinking everyone should be rich.

Not everyone should be a doctor either.

(Tip, Donald trump should not be rich.)

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Assuring that somebody can start out flipping burgers, and become wealthy like warren buffet...

Quit the strawmen, dude... wait a second. What does "even playing field" mean to you? This could be a misunderstanding.

[wierd]

When in the context of wealth earning potential, I am employing the context of wealth earning potential.

The topic was broached concerning people on government assistance, and or in poverty.

Not all such people are minorities or discriminated against. They are just poor.

[Neonivek]

(Tip, Donald trump should not be rich.)

Liberal Bias once again. We all know Trump earned every penny he made. He won the presidency and that means it is true.

(Yeah I know I am getting annoying. But I hope people get the point of why I am doing this eventually, and it isn't to be annoying)

[nenjin]

Not all such people are minorities or discriminated against. They are just poor.

Someone always being poor is a fact of life. But standing on that, instead of saying "how can we raise the definition of poor", is a cop out. If poor people are still better off than they were 10 years ago, that's called progress. I'm not saying government assistance is the answer to that, but if you ask me if I'm ok spending some taxes on not having people dying in the streets because they have nothing or nowhere to go, then yes. I'm ok with that.

Put another way, people that are just fucked because they're going to be that way will always be around. I'm not going to give the finger to people who legitimately got fucked and are struggling because of it.

[wierd]

Go back 4 pages, and read my position, then come back again.

I'll be here.

[nenjin]

Just link your post, everyone has different threads per page amounts.

Besides, if you apply your ideology to equality in primary education, it's pretty fucked. And that has a direct impact on people's odds of staying in poverty. If everyone had the best odds before deliberately being a fuck up, I wouldn't be arguing with you. But that is not the case.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Go back 4 pages, and read my position, then come back again.

I'll be here.

link pls

[Reelya]

What does "even playing field" mean to you?

I'd say to boil that down, the more common term "level playing field", would mean that your current abilities and future efforts largely dictate future success. It's the basis of what's called meritocracy. "Level playing field" doesn't imply equal outcomes, if the two factors of ability or effort are different.

Also, "hard work" is not enough. If two people worked equally hard in a pure meritocracy, but one person succeeded and the other failed, its it's still a level-playing field, as long as the difference was that the successful person had innate advantages (they were wiser about how to apply their effort), rather than external advantages (secret knowledge denied to the other person arbitrarily or influential friends).

[wierd]

Go back 4 pages, and read my position, then come back again.

I'll be here.

link pls

Here you go.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159257.msg7282156#msg7282156


Nenjin, re education.

This is the age with the single easiest access to knowledge EVER.  Self education is not only possible, it is exactly what I did, and despite being so poor as a child that I wore hand me down shoes and hone made clothes made of fabric remnants that were on sale, I now make more than 200k a year in aerospace.

Opportunity is there. These are not feudal times. You just need to apply yourself.

I assist those I see trying to do that, and help them succeed. I am less inclined to feed the poverty of people unwilling to better themselves.

[nenjin]

Put another way, if two evenly matched sides are fighting, and one of them has the high ground, guess which one probably wins.

Here you go.

Synopsis: I'm against what 99% of reasonable people are against, and therefore made a blanket statement like "assure the game is winnable for those with the skills needed" as a policy pitch. Got it...I'm sure that won't enhance the economic stratification of society by race and gender at all....

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I am a moderate, who is fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. I dont see a problem with single mothers, as long as they are able to properly provide for their children. Everyone falls on hard times, and having a social safety net is a good thing, but having people subsist entirely out of it is not acceptable. (For one, it takes money away from people who are just in a rough patch of road, which leads them to persistent poverty if they are not helped in a timely manner-- and two, enabling persistent populations supported by the state creates a persistent underclass which is deleterious to the society.) People getting government assistance should receive just enough to get by, and only for limited periods, and only recieve permanent assistance for VERY VERY special conditions, with strict requirements.

"No, we shouldn't help them get out! We should solve the welfare trap problem... by taking away welfare from people who are stuck! PERFECT!"

A social+fiscal liberal wants to accept every social choice as being valid, and wants to assure that everyone gets everything they want or need in a comfortable setting, regardless of price of impact to the rest of society.

NICE STRAWMAN DUDE

[Neonivek]

Put another way, if two evenly matched sides are fighting, and one of them has the high ground, guess which one probably wins.

The lower one with the dragon uppercut!

[wierd]

Doze, if it is a strawman, then educate instead of pontificate.

Also, I don't think you know what a straw man is, as you use one yourself just before decrying the alleged use of one.


Nenjin:
I do not believe that the genitals one has, or the color of ones skin, has anything whatsoever to do with thier ability to be self sufficient or to ecxel above their peers.

Why do YOU feel that these things have real influence?