Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smjjames]

... thing is, wierd, that first bit wasn't neutral, either. Violent clashes imply it's coming from both sides and fairly equitably

"There were violent clashes between Mahatma Ghandi's head and British soldiers' iron-shot batons today".

Being vague about who's doing what to whom is a form of bias itself isn't it?

That has somehow funny imagery of a disembodied Mahatma Ghandi's head being hit with batons.

It shouldn't be funny, but somehow is. I'm horrible, sorry.

[Max™]

... Are you suggesting we should just ignore what is happening today because we didn't do anything about what happened centuries ago?

I'm 3/8ths Comanche/Apache/Cherokee, and every day am surprised when I don't learn about some new awful thing being done or done in the past to indigenous peoples the world over. I'm saying the surprising thing would be if there was outrage about it, indeed part of the problem is framed in the post I replied to. "I'm surprised the government can do this to it's own people" you said? The only ones they really treat like their own are ones like me with enough ancestry from elsewhere to have merged into being part of "it's own people" rather than trying to be their own people.

[wierd]

No, it doesn't even do that.  The US bends over backwards for plutocrats, but gives the shaft to everyone else.

Respecting another nation's sovereignty? Lolololololol...(add several pages full of this repeat)...lolololol!

That is the real problem here. The us does not like being told NO.

Most Americans are completely unaware that the Indian nations are legally recognized foreign countries.

This is about as egregious as if these asshats were grenading Mexicans, in Mexico, and demanding the US assist them in doing so.

No, we are obligated by treaty to arrest and prosecute these asshats, but because they are rich plutocrats, we never will.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

rape culture

like, literally

it's a joke

[smjjames]

If I were president, I'd abolish the reservation system because they don't deserve living under those conditions.

Might be misguided in some ways as it helps keep 'white people' off their lands and without it, they're more at risk of being exploited, but the reservation system is a relic of our history that we need to address.

[wierd]

Sadly, it really isn't funny. The only thing funny about it is the absurd notion that they abide by their agreements.

Smjjames:  we can't. We don't own that land. That's the freaking point.

here, i will quote the treaty text with added emphasis.

ARTICLE 2. The United States agrees that the following district of country, to wit, viz: commencing on the east bank of the Missouri River where the forty-sixth parallel of north latitude crosses the same, thence along low-water mark down said east bank to a point opposite where the northern line of the State of Nebraska strikes the river, thence west across said river, and along the northern line of Nebraska to the one hundred and fourth degree of longitude west from Greenwich, thence north on said meridian to a point where the forty-sixth parallel of north latitude intercepts the same, thence due east along said parallel to the place of beginning; and in addition thereto, all existing reservations on the east bank of said river shall be, and the same is, set apart for the absolute and undisturbed use and occupation of the Indians herein named, and for such other friendly tribes or individual Indians as from time to time they may be willing, with the consent of the United States, to admit amongst them; and the United States now solemnly agrees that no persons except those herein designated and authorized so to do, and except such officers, agents, and employes of the Government as may be authorized to enter upon Indian reservations in discharge of duties enjoined by law, shall ever be permitted to pass over, settle upon, or reside in the territory described in this article, or in such territory as may be added to this reservation for the use of said Indians, and henceforth they will and do hereby relinquish all claims or right in and to any portion of the United States or Territories, except such as is embraced within the limits aforesaid, and except as hereinafter provided

[smjjames]

Sadly, it really isn't funny. The only thing funny about it is the absurd notion that they abide by their agreements.

Smjjames:  we can't. We don't own that land. That's the freaking point.

They still don't deserve to live in that situation or be mostly confined to the reservation.

[wierd]

no, they deserve better. but we cant take the land we have given them away. we can only give them new land.

[Wolfhunter107]

And where exactly do you plan for this land to come from, exactly?

[wierd]

just about any national forest would be more appropriate to the original souix way of life than these reservations, but that will never happen.

that is why the system hasnt changed.

[Max™]

Well, tradition demands we pick somewhere desolate or even somewhere entirely unfit for human habitation, but I don't think anyone wants to live in New Jersey, so that basically leaves the big empty expanses of Nebransakotowantanaho?

[smjjames]

Sadly, it really isn't funny. The only thing funny about it is the absurd notion that they abide by their agreements.

Smjjames:  we can't. We don't own that land. That's the freaking point.

here, i will quote the treaty text with added emphasis.

ARTICLE 2. The United States agrees that the following district of country, to wit, viz: commencing on the east bank of the Missouri River where the forty-sixth parallel of north latitude crosses the same, thence along low-water mark down said east bank to a point opposite where the northern line of the State of Nebraska strikes the river, thence west across said river, and along the northern line of Nebraska to the one hundred and fourth degree of longitude west from Greenwich, thence north on said meridian to a point where the forty-sixth parallel of north latitude intercepts the same, thence due east along said parallel to the place of beginning; and in addition thereto, all existing reservations on the east bank of said river shall be, and the same is, set apart for the absolute and undisturbed use and occupation of the Indians herein named, and for such other friendly tribes or individual Indians as from time to time they may be willing, with the consent of the United States, to admit amongst them; and the United States now solemnly agrees that no persons except those herein designated and authorized so to do, and except such officers, agents, and employes of the Government as may be authorized to enter upon Indian reservations in discharge of duties enjoined by law, shall ever be permitted to pass over, settle upon, or reside in the territory described in this article, or in such territory as may be added to this reservation for the use of said Indians, and henceforth they will and do hereby relinquish all claims or right in and to any portion of the United States or Territories, except such as is embraced within the limits aforesaid, and except as hereinafter provided

Okay, I didn't know how the reservation system worked, so it really was misguided.

[smjjames]

just about any national forest would be more appropriate to the original souix way of life than these reservations, but that will never happen.

that is why the system hasnt changed.

Um, the Sioux were Plains indians.

[wierd]

Hmm, I get my facts confused at times. Most of the people that were boned hard by Jackson were east coast Indians that lived in forests.

The plains Indians were boned by Custer, and he got his in the end.

[Shadowlord]

I'm saying the surprising thing would be if there was outrage about it, indeed part of the problem is framed in the post I replied to. "I'm surprised the government can do this to it's own people" you said? The only ones they really treat like their own are ones like me with enough ancestry from elsewhere to have merged into being part of "it's own people" rather than trying to be their own people.

What? I never said that, or anything like it.