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[wierd]

cryptfeind:
more, the mainstream loud voices of it.

I am technically a part of that group, because I am asexual.

I am not a pride parade whore about it though. it does not define me. My personality and mind define me.

when I refer to the group in that fashion, it is to the mad gestalt of the vapid group identity. I choose to disance myself from that, due to its offensive behvior of late.

much like a southern baptist may wish to distance themselves from a certain other group.

[Criptfeind]

(It's actually Criptfeind, thanks. (#triggered#ynormalscum))

Pride parade whore. That's an interesting one. Let me digest that from a post where you are rallying against what you describe as offensive behavior.


On the defining thing, although I don't think most people define themselves on simply one thing, for some people their sexuality is at least adjacent to major defining points, such as their loved ones. On the topic of safe spaces, I think wanting areas where one wouldn't be harassed because of such a thing is perfectly reasonable. I'll acknowledge that it's perfectly possible to take it too far, and use to interfere with other people in a negative fashion, and that shouldn't be allowed. However, a blanket condemnation of such a thing is simply the slippery slope argument. This "good thing" can lead to "this bad thing" therefor it always will and therefor it shouldn't be allowed. Rally against the misuse of such a thing all you want, but when you're turning this into a dismissal of an entire group of people simply because some of them are going too far you're pretty much turning into the thing you're rallying against.

[wierd]

Perhaps...

However, I have this problem with being overly cerebral, and not enough emotive. It makes me come off as callous, even evil, at times. I do not strive to be such. I just do not recoil from evil. I seek to understand it. It lives within all of us. Denial of that allows it to grow. I am very watchful of patterns that permit its rise.

This can make me seem like a holier than thou, smothering mother hen at times. I try to limit that. But when I see connections, I see them clearly.

A safe space operates through exclusion. Do not lie to yourself, just because it feels good. So does heroin.

Safe spaces are feel good places for some, but "no admittance" whites only bathrooms to others. Be wary of the unintended messages they send to those outside. They create feedback that causes hatred when there should be none.

[Criptfeind]

Society operates though exclusion (this is less punchy after you edited your post, rip). The lines get drawn all over the place, but when we get to put our hands and try to drag the stick to where we want said lines, I'm okay drawing out peoples abilities to say certain things in certain contexts without larger then average social reprisal.

Past that, I'd agree, that it's not worth it.

[TheBiggerFish]

Private spaces, specifically organized as such, should not be forcibly opened.

Open spaces, however, should not be 'privatized'.

[wierd]

A forcible intrusion into a private space, can be an opportunity to understand.

Say bottle thrower barges in and makes a scene.

The instinct is to eject him. This is divisive. On principle, it should be avoided except where mortal harm is imminent.

Instead, make him part of the discussion. Get his views straight from the horse's mouth. Don't navel gaze and imagine stawmen, when you have the real thing right there.

Typically, bullies cannot handle lack of reprisal this way. They often flee in terror.

The reason, is because they suddenly see self in that twisted mirror. Not a monster. It frightens them.

[TheBiggerFish]

Yes, but don't mandate that doors be opened.

[Criptfeind]

Wierd that's so beautiful. What a fantastic story you've woven. Unfortunately it's really not realistic or helpful in all contexts. People aren't really like that.

And it's certainly not someones responsibility to break their own comfort for... Bottle... Throwers. Is that a metaphor of some sort or a reference to people that are taking part in the fad to throw a bottle and have it land right side up?

[TheBiggerFish]

Wierd that's so beautiful. What a fantastic story you've woven. Unfortunately it's really not realistic or helpful in all contexts. People aren't really like that.

Some are, sometimes.  But yes.  A lot aren't.

[wierd]

I think the country church model works best.

You are not supposed to destroy the pews, piss on the pulpit it shit down the organ pipes.

That said, *anyone* may come in, learn about the faith, or pray in silence. None will disturb you. The door is always open.

It does not exclude.

[wierd]

Wierd that's so beautiful. What a fantastic story you've woven. Unfortunately it's really not realistic or helpful in all contexts. People aren't really like that.

And it's certainly not someones responsibility to break their own comfort for... Bottle... Throwers. Is that a metaphor of some sort or a reference to people that are taking part in the fad to throw a bottle and have it land right side up?

People who literally throw bottles at people they hate, because they fear.  Some call them bigots.

[Frumple]

I think the country church model works best.

You are not supposed to destroy the pews, piss on the pulpit it shit down the organ pipes.

That said, *anyone* may come in, learn about the faith, or pray in silence. None will disturb you. The door is always open.

It does not exclude.

sweet mother of fornication I am actually laughing in disbelief right now

You've never been to a country church, have you?

E: Or if you have, I would sodding love to know what part of the countryside you've been visiting where "it does not exclude" isn't about the most hilariously misrepresentative description of a country church possible.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

RPG:

there is no final destination. there never is. culture is always moving, always chnging the best we can have is harmonious coexistence.

to that end, we need to look at ourselves as a species in a critical and decidedly not rosecolored hue.

as I pointed out to Frumple when they stated that my drawn connection was my imagination-- this is simply not the case, and i linked to an article from a psychologist and from a scientific journal, how that connection works.

to avoid falling in that direction, we must resist the instinctual urge to ostracise that which we disagree with, dont understnd, or find repulsive.

we need to appreciate that which we disagree with. (I appreciate sjws, but see how they do harm, and wish they could see it too.) we need to want to understand that which we find inexplicable. and we need to find reverence in that which we find distasteful.

my personal approach, which will probably not work for others, but here it is anyway, is to see all these things as carnival mirrors.  there is a little bit of ourselves in all of them, because we are all human, and have the same base failings, and strngths.  when one fails to denounce as other, but sees as self, harmony is possible.

a safe space, to me, is "a comfortable place, away from all those scary faces in the twisted mirrors"

it is a false refuge. a retreat into the citadel of hate. just inside the door, but there it lies.

There's just one problem with that description: it is a place away from the very real -ism and discrimination and hatred and bigotry. With that change, your definition is quite good!

(Remove the "citadel of hate" and it's perfect )

[Criptfeind]

I think the country church model works best.

You are not supposed to destroy the pews, piss on the pulpit it shit down the organ pipes.

That said, *anyone* may come in, learn about the faith, or pray in silence. None will disturb you. The door is always open.

It does not exclude.

So you're saying, essentially, you want (public, presumably) safe spaces to open to people so long as they aren't... Violating the safe space?

You're in agreement with the non radical safe spaces then? Basically, is what I'm hearing.

Edit: I'm assuming you don't think that you can walk in off the street and have a theological debate in a church during mass at least here though.

[wierd]

I think the country church model works best.

You are not supposed to destroy the pews, piss on the pulpit it shit down the organ pipes.

That said, *anyone* may come in, learn about the faith, or pray in silence. None will disturb you. The door is always open.

It does not exclude.

sweet mother of fornication I am actually laughing in disbelief right now

You've never been to a country church, have you?

E: Or if you have, I would sodding love to know what part of the countryside you've been visiting where "it does not exclude" isn't about the most hilariously misrepresentative description of a country church possible.

I have been in several. I *live* in Kansas, remember?

The secret is to not be a douchebag to the congregation.

Cript:

Decorum, son. Decorum. You don't disrupt the sermon. Ask the parishioner after what it meant. You can indeed just walk in off the street. Just be polite and non disruptive. You can ask anything you line, as long as you are earnest and polite. I have never been refused.