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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1422535 times)

Codician

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10005 on: November 08, 2016, 08:50:25 am »

More on those ballots than the POTUS race, and margins send a message regardless. There's pretty much always a point for americans to get out and vote, regardless of what the polls say.

Not really, the US is First Past the Post, so it's pretty much whoever gets the most votes wins. Adding more votes onto them doesn't help.

From what I've heard from Fox, everyone I know is voting Trump. Literally, everyone.

Fox says a lot of things.
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Frumple

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10006 on: November 08, 2016, 08:53:49 am »

There's more to the margins than who gets in the office, cod. It's also about letting the parties/body politic know just how much something is supported or disliked.

And with an election like this, the people getting out and telling the GOP that this shit doesn't fly in big numbers is one of the preferred outcomes for anyone sane. Slim victory doesn't send the same message, even if there's no difference in who's elected.
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Codician

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10007 on: November 08, 2016, 09:00:27 am »

There's more to the margins than who gets in the office, cod. It's also about letting the parties/body politic know just how much something is supported or disliked.

And with an election like this, the people getting out and telling the GOP that this shit doesn't fly in big numbers is one of the preferred outcomes for anyone sane. Slim victory doesn't send the same message, even if there's no difference in who's elected.

Well, you can say that, but it doesn't make any difference to the results. Makes just as sense to allow others to vote instead of leaving the house.
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Frumple

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10008 on: November 08, 2016, 09:06:48 am »

No, it doesn't. Again, there's more on the ballot than the POTUS race. Beyond that, that kind of outlook is what depresses turnout and leads to your voice not getting heard because you assumed someone else was going to speak it for you. There's no sense in throwing out your vote over assumptions, and abrogating your voice because you're bloody lazy. Americans need to get out and vote.
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10009 on: November 08, 2016, 09:09:11 am »

There's more to the margins than who gets in the office, cod. It's also about letting the parties/body politic know just how much something is supported or disliked.

And with an election like this, the people getting out and telling the GOP that this shit doesn't fly in big numbers is one of the preferred outcomes for anyone sane. Slim victory doesn't send the same message, even if there's no difference in who's elected.

Well, you can say that, but it doesn't make any difference to the results. Makes just as sense to allow others to vote instead of leaving the house.
For Clinton, maybe, for Senate & House, which are IIRC also in play today - it absolutely does. Do you want to see another 8 years of Obama-style legislature blockade by Republican overlords? If you don't, then you'd better vote.
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martinuzz

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10010 on: November 08, 2016, 09:13:14 am »

And now time for something completely different: Remember USS Zumwalt? The one with the futuristic long-range gun systems, that got showcased in half of Hollywood movies? Yeah, the only projectile that was being developed for them just got canned by Congress due to exorbitantly high costs ($ 800 000 per shell?!) It seems that it has fallen victim to a vicious cycle "reduce quantity of stuff => higher cost per unit => justification for even further reduction in quantity", due to a drastic reduction in number of Zumwalts planned (from 28 to 3).

So now the most futuristic destroyer of USA will have no ammunition for its main weapon.

Has the sequestration gone too far?
The US weapon industry is really starting to make a name for itself for driving up prices that were high to start with to ridiculous, as projects drag on. Our Dutch governments of the past say 16 years have been fighting over and over again with the opposition about the damn JSF costing more and more billions, not in the least because of the many technical flaws initial designs had and still have. We never should have ordered the darn things and should have gone for the Eurofighter instead.
Reduction of quantity ordered has not happened yet, but I get where this Congress decision is coming from.
If it takes too much longer for the JSF to be delivered fully operational, and budgets are exceeded again, opposition parties in the customer countries might just do the same to JSF as what happened to the Zumwalt.
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Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10011 on: November 08, 2016, 09:23:18 am »

There's not really much point in voting even if you are American, the polls are completely in favour of Hillary and apparently the lines in front of the voting stations are full of Hillary supporters.
My conservative family members are saying this a lot on Facebook, even though NC has like a 2-3% expected margin.  It's the sort of thing you'd say to get Hillary supporters to stay home - the win's in the bag, right?
I've seen the mailing lists these guys get, such a tactic would be relatively tame.

Fact is we don't really know how people will actually vote.  This election is highly unprecedented.
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Starver

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10012 on: November 08, 2016, 09:26:18 am »

There's not really much point in voting even if you are American, the polls are completely in favour of Hillary and apparently the lines in front of the voting stations are full of Hillary supporters.
Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

Science Democracy. It works.  (Hopefully.)
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10013 on: November 08, 2016, 09:31:24 am »

And now time for something completely different: Remember USS Zumwalt? The one with the futuristic long-range gun systems, that got showcased in half of Hollywood movies? Yeah, the only projectile that was being developed for them just got canned by Congress due to exorbitantly high costs ($ 800 000 per shell?!) It seems that it has fallen victim to a vicious cycle "reduce quantity of stuff => higher cost per unit => justification for even further reduction in quantity", due to a drastic reduction in number of Zumwalts planned (from 28 to 3).

So now the most futuristic destroyer of USA will have no ammunition for its main weapon.

Has the sequestration gone too far?
The US weapon industry is really starting to make a name for itself for driving up prices that were high to start with to ridiculous, as projects drag on. Our Dutch governments of the past say 16 years have been fighting over and over again with the opposition about the damn JSF costing more and more billions, not in the least because of the many technical flaws initial designs had and still have. We never should have ordered the darn things and should have gone for the Eurofighter instead.
Reduction of quantity ordered has not happened yet, but I get where this Congress decision is coming from.
If it takes too much longer for the JSF to be delivered fully operational, and budgets are exceeded again, opposition parties in the customer countries might just do the same to JSF as what happened to the Zumwalt.

It has little to do with anything the contractors are doing (except for the delays in the F-35 program, because building a fighter to fulfill three separate and mutually-exclusive design goals wasn't idiotic enough, so they decided to put the thing into production while still working on the design for some stupid reason) but because orders are constantly getting cut. If it takes $200,000,000 worth of design work and factory tooling to design a new weapon, and $3,000,000 in parts and labor to build it, your per unit cost is 203,000,000 if you build only one. If you build 10, the cost is $23,000,000 a unit, and if you build 100 it is $5,000,000 a unit, because the up front costs have to be taken into account for the overall cost of the project.

In this particular case, the guns on the new the Zumwalt-class ships are the only ones that will use them, there were supposed to be 28 Zumwalt-class destroyers built, with 100 of the new rounds in the magazine (plus 900 more conventional rounds). 25 of those ships were cancelled (partially due to cost overruns, and partially because the older Arleigh Burke class has better ABM capability), and at least one of those three is slated to serve as a railgun testbed instead of mounting the fancy conventional cannon. This means that projected demand was reduced by about 90%, so the development cost will not be spread out the way they wanted it to be.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10014 on: November 08, 2016, 09:36:57 am »

Ok, I am collecting a lot of "The election is rigged" evidence.

But something stumps me... Isn't the elections more rigged in Trump's favor?

That is kind of what is confusing me right now.

Proofs? The only 'proof' of rigged is that there are long lines and there were some problems with some machines in Michigan because the polling staffer didn't know how to use it correctly, some optical machines had problems reading licences and one person's voter ID card couldn't be found in the database.
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Frumple

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10015 on: November 08, 2016, 09:45:38 am »

... and the repeated legal verdicts the GOP keep getting hit with for voter suppression et al. Those long lines are one of the bigger symptoms :-\
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10016 on: November 08, 2016, 09:53:57 am »

... and the repeated legal verdicts the GOP keep getting hit with for voter suppression et al. Those long lines are one of the bigger symptoms :-\

I meant proofs in Trump's sense of rigged, but yeah, there's that.
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10017 on: November 08, 2016, 09:55:09 am »

So today we learn that Trump won the presidential election
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Frumple

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10018 on: November 08, 2016, 09:58:55 am »

In his own mind, if nowhere else.
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Codician

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American (\{mainiac})
« Reply #10019 on: November 08, 2016, 10:04:53 am »

Fact is we don't really know how people will actually vote.  This election is highly unprecedented.

The polls weren't really wrong last time, I doubt they'll be wrong this time. They've definitely shown Hillary has a very large win margin.

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