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[misko27]

Both Ohio and Arizona swung back to being in Trump's favor, albeit barely.

Interesting. I'm not surprised Arizona and Ohio are in the same general area for Trump, but entirely opposite reasons. Arizona is one of the traditionally Republican states that Trump is struggling with because he has done quite poorly among some traditional Republican demographics. Ohio, by contrast, is a state that has a much higher than average number of demographics he does quite well in. Ohio shares this trait with Iowa, and is why Iowa has strongly leaned Trump.

[SalmonGod]

Was gonna put this in the WTF thread, but it's probably better in pol: Remember them rascally Bundy boys from that wildlife refuge dustup? They were acquitted today.

That's surprising, and bad. It kinda gives off a signal that armed resistance against the evil federal government is okay. Very very dumb, with the current situation of Trump supporters threatening violence if Hillary wins. They just legalized civil war.

But only if you're a white conservative, and your agenda doesn't smell the slightest bit liberal.

If I remember the whole story right, the Bundy people were protesting because they were completely disregarding any requests to handle their needs responsibly.  They'd been given tons of leeway and many chances after fucking up many times.  They wanted their animals to graze on land that was federally protected for nature conservancy.  And the Bundies repeatedly trashed the place, requiring months of careful rehabilitation multiple times.  The environmental agency involved was as nice as possible about this, but finally said "No.  Fuck off.  You can't keep doing this."  And that's when they decided to occupy the place by force.

The contrast with the Dakota Pipeline situation could not possibly be any more of a stark comparison.

Spoiler: And the memes about it are flying (click to show/hide)

Police have arrested hundreds of people, allowed attack dogs to indiscriminately maul even children, and today I'm seeing claims that they're shooting people's horses.  These are protesters who have not even threatened violence, and are occupying land that they have rights to.  Journalists who try to cover it are facing serious abuse and charges threatening decades of time.

All to defend a corporation's interest in threatening the safety of land they don't have any claim to for their exclusive profit.

Automation and globalization

I've worked in international trade, and I see a lot of both things.  The account I work for in just the last three years has sent hundreds of jobs from USA to Mexico.  AND I've seen their suppliers talk about automating their factories.  There's a factory in China right now that's been causing me headaches for the last couple months, because they're behind on production, while re-tooling their factory to be fully automated.  I know... that's China... but it's a global economy, and a global issue.

As for tariffs... the USA taxes imports on lots of stuff.  You can look up the duty rates assigned to any type of product on the Harmonized Tariff Schedule, which I've referenced daily about 10 years.  Someone mentioned that tariffs only make sense for developing economies.  The problem is we're only charging tariffs against developed economies.  With countries that have a lot of poor, exploitable labor, we have free trade agreements.  My opinion is those are not meant to help out the economies of those countries.  They're meant to help corporations with exploiting the workforces of those countries, because desperate people are so easy to take advantage of.  We provide further incentive by going "Hey yeah, if you go abuse those poor fuckers over there where the labor is cheap and you don't have to worry about legal oversight for working conditions, we'll also let you ship their products back for free!  Put some children in a sweatshop if you want!  Lock the doors so they can't escape if there's a fire!  Go wild!"  I'm not a fan.

[sluissa]

Let's be fair though. The Bundy group was acquitted by a jury. They still got arrested and one of them shot and killed over the whole thing.

The Dakota pipeline isn't anywhere near that far progressed yet and the numbers of people involved there are on a much larger scale.

Do I side with the Bundy group? No.

Do I sympathize with the Dakota tribes over the issue? Yes.

Do I think there are perhaps SOME differences in the treatment they're getting? Of course.

But I don't really think it's as black and white of a comparison as that image and some descriptions are making it seem. If it ever gets to court I can almost guarantee the arrested Dakota people could get off easier than the Bundy people did... and let's not forget the Bundys are still awaiting trial in other jurisdictions. They're not out of hot water yet.

[Neonivek]

Ohh America so behind Canada

We already had this happen with a Golf Course...

Mind you... You... seem to have... done it far worse actually...

[misko27]

Ohh America so behind Canada

We've been doing this for a lot longer. Arguments about land are as American as cowboys.

[Neonivek]

Ohh America so behind Canada

We've been doing this for a lot longer. Arguments about land are as American as cowboys.

Yeah but when was the last time you guys invaded Native land to suit corporate interests?

[Max™]

I mean, the country was kinda founded on taking "unclaimed" land for wealthy fucks across the ocean, it's a tradition over here, really.

[Frumple]

Automation and globalization

I've worked in international trade, and I see a lot of both things.  The account I work for in just the last three years has sent hundreds of jobs from USA to Mexico.  AND I've seen their suppliers talk about automating their factories.  There's a factory in China right now that's been causing me headaches for the last couple months, because they're behind on production, while re-tooling their factory to be fully automated.  I know... that's China... but it's a global economy, and a global issue.

For what it's worth, even without the outright automation and outsourcing, the manufacturing sector was something always doomed to eventually shrink strictly because of improvements in other ways. It would have been slower and maybe not due for another generation or two, but the productivity thing really is a sort of kiss of death (very metaphorically and probably with a bit of hyperbole). There's just not really a way to match or surpass peak employment (proportionally, anyway) when that high is contingent on (sometimes gross) inefficiency. As the field matures the amount of people needed to do the same amount of work shrinks. And as that happens, even if the industries in question continue to grow overall, they're just not going to have the same employment to expansion ratio that they did previously.

Things as unassisted as administration and organization improvements that came (and are still coming) with more experience in the field were enough to make it so every extra pound of stuff churned out is a fraction less of a worker needed for it to happen, and while there are harsher limits on flesh and simple good logistics than that plus a metal helping hand, there's still been pretty substantial gains just from that. And in the face of that... the employment is going to shrink. In the face of a growing population (even a slow one), the jobs are going to "disappear", as many unskilled laborers (workers period, really) aren't going to be needed, etc., so on, and so forth. Which fucks a metric shitton of people, especially young ones, but there's not many ways to stop it and most of what there are is just kinda' untenable.

S'just... there's a reason relying on stuff like manufacturing is just a terrible idea in the long run.

[Neonivek]

I really should have checked the cases

I thought it was a case where someone killed a police officer and it was considered justifyable homicide.

Not... what I am finding out it was.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Ohh America so behind Canada

We've been doing this for a lot longer. Arguments about land are as American as cowboys.

Yeah but when was the last time you guys invaded Native land to suit corporate interests?

If you mean the first, and replace "corporate" with "wealthy," I'd say within the early years of contact with Native American tribes.

If you mean the last, that would be now.

Automation and globalization

I've worked in international trade, and I see a lot of both things.  The account I work for in just the last three years has sent hundreds of jobs from USA to Mexico.  AND I've seen their suppliers talk about automating their factories.  There's a factory in China right now that's been causing me headaches for the last couple months, because they're behind on production, while re-tooling their factory to be fully automated.  I know... that's China... but it's a global economy, and a global issue.

For what it's worth, even without the outright automation and outsourcing, the manufacturing sector was something always doomed to eventually shrink strictly because of improvements in other ways. It would have been slower and maybe not due for another generation or two, but the productivity thing really is a sort of kiss of death (very metaphorically and probably with a bit of hyperbole). There's just not really a way to match or surpass peak employment (proportionally, anyway) when that high is contingent on (sometimes gross) inefficiency. As the field matures the amount of people needed to do the same amount of work shrinks. And as that happens, even if the industries in question continue to grow overall, they're just not going to have the same employment to expansion ratio that they did previously.

Things as unassisted as administration and organization improvements that came (and are still coming) with more experience in the field were enough to make it so every extra pound of stuff churned out is a fraction less of a worker needed for it to happen, and while there are harsher limits on flesh and simple good logistics than that plus a metal helping hand, there's still been pretty substantial gains just from that. And in the face of that... the employment is going to shrink. In the face of a growing population (even a slow one), the jobs are going to "disappear", as many unskilled laborers (workers period, really) aren't going to be needed, etc., so on, and so forth. Which fucks a metric shitton of people, especially young ones, but there's not many ways to stop it and most of what there are is just kinda' untenable.

S'just... there's a reason relying on stuff like manufacturing is just a terrible idea in the long run.

The real solution is to smash capitalism.

[LoSboccacc]

this election is mad fun

https://twitter.com/jasoninthehouse/status/792047597040971776

^ this guy actually tweeted that, wheter or not it'll be relevant matters little, this is like looking at the election of the class president in second grade XD

[martinuzz]

So apparently the FBI reopened the investigtion into Hillary's emails, after some new emails surfaced in another case, which according to the FBI "should have been included in our earlier investigation".

Paul Ryan has commented that Clinton should be barred from any meeting in which state secrets are mentioned effective immediatly.

[Neonivek]

So apparently the FBI reopened the investigtion into Hillary's emails, after some new emails surfaced in another case, which according to the FBI "should have been included in our earlier investigation".

Paul Ryan has commented that Clinton should be barred from any meeting in which state secrets are mentioned effective immediatly.

We LITERALLY have a department for that...

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Which one would that be? No Such Agency?

[PTTG??]

It's great that the FBI is manipulating an election. It's even better that they're actively working against their own interest by trying to get a facist in charge who will purge them. What's the long-term goal? Does James Comey expect Trump will reward him by increasing the FBI's power? Or does he expect that Trump will be so ineffectual and manipulable that the FBI can trick him into strengthening the FBI?

Or is he just so blinded by party politics that he isn't considering the consequences at all?