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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1414117 times)

SalmonGod

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8760 on: October 27, 2016, 12:05:14 pm »

I think you guys are forgetting that by the time the primary season got serious, mainiac was the most outspokenly anti-Sanders dude around, and has remained so since.  So I'm looking for the humor context in his post, but not finding it.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8761 on: October 27, 2016, 12:06:40 pm »

I think you guys are forgetting that by the time the primary season got serious, mainiac was the most outspokenly anti-Sanders dude around, and has remained so since.  So I'm looking for the humor context in his post, but not finding it.

Then he later seemed to have changed his mind and went sorta anti-Clinton. Or at least just not so avid a supporter for her.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8762 on: October 27, 2016, 12:09:11 pm »

I think you guys are forgetting that by the time the primary season got serious, mainiac was the most outspokenly anti-Sanders dude around, and has remained so since.  So I'm looking for the humor context in his post, but not finding it.

Then he later seemed to have changed his mind and went sorta anti-Clinton. Or at least just not so avid a supporter for her.

Umm what really?  If that's the case, I missed it big time.
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8763 on: October 27, 2016, 12:12:27 pm »

As did I.

Just cuz I wrote in Sanders for second circuit doesn't mean I didn't vote clinton. I just didn't want to vote for the incumbent and it was a non competitive race.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8764 on: October 27, 2016, 12:14:26 pm »

As did I.

Just cuz I wrote in Sanders for second circuit doesn't mean I didn't vote clinton. I just didn't want to vote for the incumbent and it was a non competitive race.

Heh, good one.
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sluissa

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8765 on: October 27, 2016, 12:19:00 pm »

But, but, but...

You know he's not going to win. Who do you hate more: Trump or Clinton? Vote for the other one. Otherwise, you're throwing your vote away. I guess that's fine, but why are you even voting then?

Setting aside mainiacs sarcasm... I wish people would stop saying this. While realistically there are only two candidates. What if you hate them both equally? What if you really do agree much more with a third party? What if you're just pissed off at everyone and refuse to back down from the Bernie or bust bandwagon? Why not vote for who you really care about?

I can't conscionably vote for either Trump or Clinton. So I'm voting third party. It's not a matter of lesser of the two evils. Neither one is appreciably less evil than the other in my eyes. If there were no third parties and no write in, I simply wouldn't vote for either. That's where I stand and I'm certain I'm not alone on that. So stop spouting that nonsense about throwing your vote away. Stop trying to convince people there are only two choices.

Realistically? Yeah, either Trump or Clinton (likely Clinton at this stage) are going to win. But just because I or anyone else doesn't vote for them, that doesn't mean the vote is thrown away. If you cast a vote it goes towards someone. Even if they don't win it still shows support for them or their policies. There's also that always important 5% number to hit where they begin to get public campaign funding for future elections.
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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8766 on: October 27, 2016, 12:28:42 pm »

(removed)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 01:57:23 pm by Toady One »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Starver

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8767 on: October 27, 2016, 01:47:20 pm »

Setting aside mainiacs sarcasm... I wish people would stop saying this. While realistically there are only two candidates. What if you hate them both equally?
If it's utterly equal, fair enough. If you have even the faintest amount less of distaste for one, though, you might want to not risk supporting the other one that you hate more.

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What if you really do agree much more with a third party?
First be sure that voting for them doesn't disadvantage the primary candidate you don't absolutely hate vs the primary candidate that you do. Then work out whether your vote for your 3rd/4th/5th/unranked-party will help, given that there's no such thing as a Vice-Vice-Baby (Under Pressure!)-President. Will it send a message to the winner? If so, go ahead.

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What if you're just pissed off at everyone and refuse to back down from the Bernie or bust bandwagon?
Your prerogative, and self-realisation is a good thing. Work with that.

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Why not vote for who you really care about?
I didn't know my pristine vintage life-sized cardboard cutout of Lt Tasha Yar was running? (But, seriously, if it isn't a useful choice then it isn't a choice that's useful.)

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I can't conscionably vote for either Trump or Clinton. So I'm voting third party. It's not a matter of lesser of the two evils. Neither one is appreciably less evil than the other in my eyes. If there were no third parties and no write in, I simply wouldn't vote for either. That's where I stand and I'm certain I'm not alone on that. So stop spouting that nonsense about throwing your vote away. Stop trying to convince people there are only two choices.
At least three. Trump, Clinton, other/none. If you're lucky, maybe Trump, Clinton, SomeoneWhoIsn'tTrumpOrClinton, other/none. But if the third place, locally, gets more percentage points than the gap between the first two then that's a potentially expensive message to send, even if it is effective.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 01:54:38 pm by Starver »
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Toady One

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8768 on: October 27, 2016, 02:01:57 pm »

I'd been lenient due to the election, but moderation stopped working and mainiac stopped caring a while ago I guess.  So that's not going to be an issue anymore.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8769 on: October 27, 2016, 02:02:52 pm »

:(
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Mephansteras

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8770 on: October 27, 2016, 02:04:23 pm »

And this is why we don't call people names, no matter what we think of their views.
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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8771 on: October 27, 2016, 02:06:12 pm »

Setting aside mainiacs sarcasm... I wish people would stop saying this. While realistically there are only two candidates. What if you hate them both equally?
Are you seriously telling me that you dislike Trump and Clinton exactly the same amount? Of course you might dislike them both, I have that feeling too. Clinton's part of the establishment, and VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN! SANDERS! But Trump is way worse than Clinton IMO, so I'm voting for Clinton.

...er, I would if I could. Not quite old enough. Next election, and I'll finally get to participate in a useless activity of choosing between two lizards vote.
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What if you really do agree much more with a third party?
So what? I prefer Sanders. But it's effectively a choice between Trump and Clinton now, and I prefer Clinton. That's the way our system works. I don't like that, but it's the system we have to work with.
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What if you're just pissed off at everyone and refuse to back down from the Bernie or bust bandwagon? Why not vote for who you really care about?
What if you can't realize that Sanders is not going to win, and that voting for him is effectively throwing away your vote? Why not vote for somebody who has more than an ice cube's chance in hell of winning?
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I can't conscionably vote for either Trump or Clinton.
Why not? It's a statement of relative preference. I'd vote for Trump over Hitler, and Hitler over Santa Satan.
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So I'm voting third party.
That is a choice that you have.
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It's not a matter of lesser of the two evils.
Ah, but it is. One of them will be in the White House. Which would you rather have there? "Neither" doesn't work.
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Neither one is appreciably less evil than the other in my eyes.
Drop the "appreciably." Would you rather have Trump or Clinton? If you can't decide, then don't vote, or vote for Mickey Mouse, or vote for Sanders, or the Man in the Moon. I don't care. But if enough people choose Sanders over Clinton, Trump will win. There are people who prefer Clinton to Trump, but will still vote for Sanders. That is a stupid choice.
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If there were no third parties and no write in, I simply wouldn't vote for either. That's where I stand and I'm certain I'm not alone on that.
Fine. I don't care whether you vote or no.
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So stop spouting that nonsense about throwing your vote away. Stop trying to convince people there are only two choices.
It's not nonsense. Voting for Sanders has absolutely no impact on the race, save that of a spoiler. Voting for Sanders, if you were never going to vote for Clinton, has exactly the same impact in this race as voting for the Man in the Moon. It's throwing the vote away. The two choices are - Lizard #1? Or Lizard #2? I dislike them both, but you have to choose. Or don't. But then you're letting other people choose.
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Realistically? Yeah, either Trump or Clinton (likely Clinton at this stage) are going to win. But just because I or anyone else doesn't vote for them, that doesn't mean the vote is thrown away. If you cast a vote it goes towards someone.
Tautologies for 500, Alex?
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Even if they don't win it still shows support for them or their policies.
There are other ways to do that. These "other ways" also don't involve being a spoiler for Clinton, so that's a plus.
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There's also that always important 5% number to hit where they begin to get public campaign funding for future elections.
Indeed, a vote for Sanders has a very minimal impact on later elections. Is that worth getting Trump?

Edit: Filthy ninjas.

Edit: WHAT THE FUCK

MAINIAC IS GONE

WHAT
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RedKing

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8772 on: October 27, 2016, 02:06:56 pm »

And I had just composed a long post pointing out that Clinton's enthusiasm numbers are pretty mediocre by that chart, only beating out some godawful picks in Mondale, Dukakis and Kerry.
Also surprised that Bill had such weak support in 1992.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8773 on: October 27, 2016, 02:07:50 pm »

Saltcon 5? Can I hock my emergency desalination pump and learn to enjoy potato chips again?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #8774 on: October 27, 2016, 02:08:47 pm »

...
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