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[mainiac]

The fact that corruption in the US is institutionalised doesn't make it less harmful.

The fact that you are ignorant doesn't make it corruption.

[Phmcw]

The fact that corruption in the US is institutionalised doesn't make it less harmful.

The fact that you are ignorant doesn't make it corruption.

The fact that you are indoctrinated doesn't make me ignorant.

[Dorsidwarf]

So you wrote the wrong thing and you are being belligerent towards me for reading your words?

You keep saying "corruption" but it's without proof.  This is what in intellectually honest circles is called a "lie".

It's not a lie unless he promotes the falsehood with knowledge and the belief that the statement is false.

Otherwise, he's just incorrect


There is also a big difference between a famous private citizen receiving large speaking fees and a governmental official colluding with a businessman to receive a huge personal loan from said businessman while in office, then lie repeatedly to both the media and the German parliament about the nature of the lian and the loaner while president.

[mainiac]

It's not a lie unless he promotes the falsehood with knowledge and the belief that the statement is false.

Otherwise, he's just incorrect

I dont know for sure if he is the zodiac killer or not.  But it would be a lie to confidently assert that he is the zodiac killer.  I am aware I have no proof that he is the zodiac killer but I am giving the opposite impression.

Likewise he is grossly ignorant about what constitutes corruption and is aware of the limitations of his knowledge but insists with confidence he knows something he doesn't know.

[Catmeat]

I wish I could be so grossly incandescent

[Max™]

Expecting someone to make sure random numbers they're quoting are correct is nitpicking, having people throw money at you for being a famous public figure known for making speeches is corruption, having an urge to correct misinformation is indoctrination, and being unaware or uninformed about something does not make one ignorant.

Hey Phmcw, you ever considered running for public office?

[Phmcw]

It's not a lie unless he promotes the falsehood with knowledge and the belief that the statement is false.

Otherwise, he's just incorrect

I dont know for sure if he is the zodiac killer or not.  But it would be a lie to confidently assert that he is the zodiac killer.  I am aware I have no proof that he is the zodiac killer but I am giving the opposite impression.

Likewise he is grossly ignorant about what constitutes corruption and is aware of the limitations of his knowledge but insists with confidence he knows something he doesn't know.

You're arguing for a system that legalised corruption. Worst, a system that made NOT taking money from big businesses an untenable position.

[martinuzz]

When the ISDS is instated via trade treaties, institutionalizing corruption on a global scale will have reached near perfection, with big business being granted a tool to sue nations for democratic processes.

[Max™]

It's not a lie unless he promotes the falsehood with knowledge and the belief that the statement is false.

Otherwise, he's just incorrect

I dont know for sure if he is the zodiac killer or not.  But it would be a lie to confidently assert that he is the zodiac killer.  I am aware I have no proof that he is the zodiac killer but I am giving the opposite impression.

Likewise he is grossly ignorant about what constitutes corruption and is aware of the limitations of his knowledge but insists with confidence he knows something he doesn't know.

You're arguing for a system that legalised corruption. Worst, a system that made NOT taking money from big businesses an untenable position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption

Political corruption is the use of powers by government officials for illegitimate private gain. An illegal act by an officeholder constitutes political corruption only if the act is directly related to their official duties, is done under color of law or involves trading in influence.

Forms of corruption vary, but include bribery, extortion, cronyism, nepotism, gombeenism, parochialism, patronage, influence peddling, graft, and embezzlement. Corruption may facilitate criminal enterprise such as drug trafficking, money laundering, and human trafficking, though is not restricted to these activities. Misuse of government power for other purposes, such as repression of political opponents and general police brutality, is also considered political corruption.

Ctrl+f public speaking
No matches found

Hmmm.

Ctrl+f outside employment
No matches found

Hmmm.

Are you perhaps privy to something like Hillary selling favors to people, particularly cases where said favors involve bribery and other illegal activities?

I mean, besides watchdog groups that specifically watch for that sort of thing: http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/country-profiles/usa I imagine there are any number of agencies that would appreciate a tip that might help them uncover this corruption you've so astutely identified.

[mainiac]

any number of agencies that would appreciate a tip that might help them uncover this corruption you've so astutely identified.

Not to mention all the book deals he could get afterwards!

Oh wait...

[Phmcw]

It fall under "influence peddling". Or patronage.

And it won't impress anyone because you guys have been somehow convinced that this is normal. Well that IS the new normal, and it's being exported all  over the world now.

[Max™]

It fall under "influence peddling". Or patronage.

And it won't impress anyone because you guys have been somehow convinced that this is normal. Well that IS the new normal, and it's being exported all  over the world now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_Economic_Co-operation_and_Development
Sub-organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD_Anti-Bribery_Convention

http://www.oecd.org/corruption/
http://www.oecd.org/corruption/ethics/oecdprinciplesfortransparencyandintegrityinlobbying.htm

That's a group which specifically works to make sure that lobbying does not result in undue benefit being given to said lobbyists. It's been around since the 60's, Europe has been a part of it longer than the US actually. The current state of affairs came as much from your side of the pond as ours.

Expecting people to run a government without making any sorts of deal and arrangements and transactions is a noble cause, but as we saw from the republican congress refusing to make any compromises or anything with Obama, it doesn't work.

You can also do things like make a report to, say, the https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/public-corruption hotlines or your local analogue thereof.

any number of agencies that would appreciate a tip that might help them uncover this corruption you've so astutely identified.

Not to mention all the book deals he could get afterwards!

Oh wait...

Hoisted by his own petard!

[Phmcw]

... "the system currently in place institutionalised corruption". "Don't worry, report it to the very same system".

As for whistle blowing, I don't want to spend the rest of my life holed up in an embassy because of very obviously false accusations, thank you very much. 

[Max™]

... "the system currently in place institutionalised corruption". "Don't worry, report it to the very same system".

As for whistle blowing, I don't want to spend the rest of my life holed up in an embassy because of very obviously false accusations, thank you very much. 

Well look, I don't know what you're trying to get at here, if the words you're using have the same meanings as I think they do, and your understanding of government agencies includes concepts like separation of powers which implies the same thing I understand it to mean then this corruption must be so amazingly complex that I can't understand it.

So, since I'm too fucking stupid to see it, can you dumb it down in some way which doesn't involve simply stating tautologies about "it's corrupt because it's corrupt" so the rest of us can get it?

Our school systems aren't so good, and we clearly didn't get anything like the sort of education on the US civic system as you did over there.

[Reelya]

This is someone who thinks all of Europe is squeaky-clean should really know about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
Basically, after WWII, NATO set up secret armies in every part of Western Europe - outside proper democratic controls. Police and the military and some right-wing politicians coordinated these groups to take out leftists - which sometimes included political rivals. This escalated all the way to full-on army staged terrorist attacks in Italy, which were pinned on the Communist Party, because they were winning too many elections. People who knew were still denying the existence of these secret armies at least 50 years after the war. And you had the French government directly ordering terrorist attacks up until at least the 1980s (the Greenpeace ship bombing). Yeah, I'm not buying the squeaky-clean French who aren't corrupt, but carry out clandestine terrorist attacks against uppity NGO's.