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[smjjames]

Or the same wikileaks that is apparently colluding with Russia to screw the elections over a personal grudge with Clinton?

[Rolan7]

... not really. Nonlegal and unlawful are different sorts of things. What m linked actually clarified that.

I'm tempted to OOC quote this because it's so patently absurd, sorry...  I have a lot of respect for you.

First result on Google:
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/unlawful-versus-illegal

I see that there's a very slight difference but... emphasis on slight.

[mainiac]

Are people suprised a State Department employee talking about classified meetings would want to speak anonymously? I don't know that Wikileaks has a reputation for inventing things from whole cloth.

It's not the anonymous part that is the conspiracy theory.  It's the part where they blow up an embassy.  In britain.  The closest and longest running alliance we have.

Conspiracy - a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

Okay, sure.

Well gee... I dunno.  Maybe somebody would get hurt when that drone missile blew up?  I gotta admit I'm not really an expert in this but that doesn't sound like the best thing for your health.

[smjjames]

Are people suprised a State Department employee talking about classified meetings would want to speak anonymously? I don't know that Wikileaks has a reputation for inventing things from whole cloth.

They've kinda' been trying to garner one for the past while, actually. Shit's been off with that lot since at least the start of this campaign cycle.

In other news, the trump/russia connection would appear to be getting more questionable.

To answer the rhetorical question he asked in the article: "So how did Donald Trump end up advancing the same falsehood put out by Putin’s mouthpiece?" Because someone saw it before it was taken down or saw the wikileaks email and the republicans (or at least Trump) doesn't care where such information comes from?

Anyways, speaking of the Russian meddling, Obama needs to move faster and make them butt the fuck out or realize they need to.

[Frumple]

... not really. Nonlegal and unlawful are different sorts of things. What m linked actually clarified that.

I'm tempted to OOC quote this because it's so patently absurd, sorry...  I have a lot of respect for you.

First result on Google:
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/unlawful-versus-illegal

I see that there's a very slight difference but... emphasis on slight.

Didn't compare unlawful and illegal, rol, and for a reason. Nonlegal is, again, something different. In the particular context being referenced it's more or less just stuff that's not litigation and whatnot. For an example, if you were doing legal research, you'd go to a law library. If you were doing nonlegal research, you'd be checking economic statistics or somethin'. Which, as noted. What m linked did, in fact, clarify.

You're free to oocq it, o'course, though. Never particularly object to that, ha.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Just use unlegalful. It's better.

[smjjames]

And apparently the whole 'Republicans MUST fall in line' thing is getting in the way of dealing with the hacks. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-russia-hackers-republicans-229572 The election can't seem to come fast enough

"As Republicans start taking more public stances on the hacks, many Democrats say they’ve been frustrated by GOP counterparts who for months have ignored their requests for a congressional investigation or hearings to examine the issue. Even the top Democrats on the House and Senate intelligence committees failed last month to get their GOP chairmen to sign off on a statement calling on Putin to butt out of the U.S. election."

The Russians appear to have underestimated that Trump's own failings are bringing him down.

Just use unlegalful. It's better.

You mean unlegit? Also, illegal is the same as unlegalful, or perhaps unlawfully.

[Rolan7]

... not really. Nonlegal and unlawful are different sorts of things. What m linked actually clarified that.

I'm tempted to OOC quote this because it's so patently absurd, sorry...  I have a lot of respect for you.

First result on Google:
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/unlawful-versus-illegal

I see that there's a very slight difference but... emphasis on slight.

Didn't compare unlawful and illegal, rol, and for a reason. Nonlegal is, again, something different. In the particular context being referenced it's more or less just stuff that's not litigation and whatnot. For an example, if you were doing legal research, you'd go to a law library. If you were doing nonlegal research, you'd be checking economic statistics or somethin'. Which, as noted. What m linked did, in fact, clarify.

You're free to oocq it, o'course, though. Never particularly object to that, ha.

Mmm...  Huh.
Thanks for the explanation!
Seems like a very fine line, which is *apparently* absurd (emphasis on "apparently").  So, for funsies, I'll take you up on your offer (;

[smirk]

Think about it like this: Say that you own a few acres of woods in the American midwest, and one of your neighbors regularly poaches on it. You can address the problem in a legal manner by gathering firm evidence of said poaching and getting the neighbor arrested, or you can address it in a nonlegal manner by knocking on the neighbor's door and requesting that they not poach, or at least do it less and get your permission first. The nonlegal option would probably include the threat of the legal route ("please stop poaching or I will be forced to sue you into the ground"), but it's not itself a legal route in the strict sense of the term.



_{(I hope that made sense. Very tired right now.)}

[Rolan7]

That does make sense.
I'd probably have chosen "extralegal" but that has connotations of illegality too.  Possibly more.

If only Max™ were here to set things right!

[Max™]

That does make sense.
I'd probably have chosen "extralegal" but that has connotations of illegality too.  Possibly more.

A discussion about semantic meanings and nobody invited me? That's what really hurts.

Unlawful: flying drones over the embassy and releasing swarms of beetles while other drones are used to startle roosting birds and herd them in that direction, whereupon they will eat the beetles, and bury Assange in a mountain of crap.

I don't care how absurdly prepared your legal system is, it doesn't have a provision saying you specifically can't do that, but they WILL find something to charge you wish if you do it.

Illegal: dropping a squad of operators in, infiltrating, and leaving with Assange bagged up on one of their shoulders, in a perfectly coordinated and executed mission which goes completely unobserved  until the next morning when Assange isn't there.

Even if you don't get caught, slipping troops into the embassy of an ally to kidnap anyone is definitely prohibited by all sorts of laws and so forth.

Nonlegal: seeding a viral operation where people begin leaving a certain type of flower around the embassy for Julian, which happens to be the favorite food of a certain beetle that just entered their breeding season and explosively multiply before the starlings catch on and bury the whole place in crap.

No laws would need to be broken, no implied prohibitions violated, just letting things happen in a way that achieves a result.

Extralegal: arranging things such that an MQ-9 Reaper en route to rearm was unable to make a critical refueling stop was still able to just barely reach the refueling point safely, except a damn huge flock of starlings screwed up the flight plan, forcing a detour around a civilian flight that unfortunately caused it to run out of fuel with nowhere else to land but Assange's lap.

There are other more plausible extralegal methods, but basically it would need to be a "well shit, that sucks lads, let's clean up" rather than "so we squabblin' now I 'spose" type of outcome gone for there, but it would be a lot harder to arrange with a respected ally than it was to say, drop a squad in and pick off bin laden, which most any other nation would have wound up getting more than an "America!"...

From Pakistan and the international community.

[Rolan7]

A discussion about semantic meanings and nobody invited me? That's what really hurts.

Look again, sirrah!

As I will do, in the morning...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

A discussion about semantic meanings and nobody invited me? That's what really hurts.

Unlawful: flying drones over the embassy and releasing swarms of beetles while other drones are used to startle roosting birds and herd them in that direction, whereupon they will eat the beetles, and bury Assange in a mountain of crap.

I don't care how absurdly prepared your legal system is, it doesn't have a provision saying you specifically can't do that, but they WILL find something to charge you wish if you do it.

Illegal: dropping a squad of operators in, infiltrating, and leaving with Assange bagged up on one of their shoulders, in a perfectly coordinated and executed mission which goes completely unobserved  until the next morning when Assange isn't there.

Even if you don't get caught, slipping troops into the embassy of an ally to kidnap anyone is definitely prohibited by all sorts of laws and so forth.

Nonlegal: seeding a viral operation where people begin leaving a certain type of flower around the embassy for Julian, which happens to be the favorite food of a certain beetle that just entered their breeding season and explosively multiply before the starlings catch on and bury the whole place in crap.

No laws would need to be broken, no implied prohibitions violated, just letting things happen in a way that achieves a result.

Extralegal: arranging things such that an MQ-9 Reaper en route to rearm was unable to make a critical refueling stop was still able to just barely reach the refueling point safely, except a damn huge flock of starlings screwed up the flight plan, forcing a detour around a civilian flight that unfortunately caused it to run out of fuel with nowhere else to land but Assange's lap.

Hyperlegal: Openly attacking the Ecuadorian embassy and telling the UK and Ecuador to suck it up and get gud. The ruined land is later purchased by a transnational firm based out of Portland and used to farm organic free-range beetles.

This utterly violates all laws as written, but exposes the higher unspoken law of power. The knowledge that the US can actually just do whatever it wants because it's a sufficiently robust organization able to survive any level of controversy drives the unenlightened to madness and makes the rest hold grudging respect for the audacity of it all.

Omnilegal: Catalyzing negentropy in the area surrounding the embassy, causing it to rapidly degrade into an exotic vacuum state as all potentiality is immediately lost, leaving only a half-sphere hole in the ground and millions of deaths across the UK due to the extreme radiation burst. Beetles eventually become the dominant lifeform in the British Isles, as the largest form able to avoid collapsing into cancer.

The laws of thermodynamics are the highest law of all.

[Max™]

Hyperlegal: Openly attacking the Ecuadorian embassy and telling the UK and Ecuador to suck it up and get gud. The ruined land is later purchased by a transnational firm based out of Portland and used to farm organic free-range beetles.

This utterly violates all laws as written, but exposes the higher unspoken law of power. The knowledge that the US can actually just do whatever it wants because it's a sufficiently robust organization able to survive any level of controversy drives the unenlightened to madness and makes the rest hold grudging respect for the audacity of it all.

Omnilegal: Catalyzing negentropy in the area surrounding the embassy, causing it to rapidly degrade into an exotic vacuum state as all potentiality is immediately lost, leaving only a half-sphere hole in the ground and millions of deaths across the UK due to the extreme radiation burst. Beetles eventually become the dominant lifeform in the British Isles, as the largest form able to avoid collapsing into cancer.

The laws of thermodynamics are the highest law of all.

I was just saying to the missus that I'm pretty sure Assange has seen enough of how the US government does things to know that there are certain lines and buttons he should avoid, because there aren't many that would actually escalate it the point where we would just walk in, tell everyone to mind their business, and leave with him bagged up. Like, doing something which actually involved an exchange of highly sensitive nuclear weapon information, getting hold of the root password for the NORAD mainframe and giving it to Putin, etc, where he would go from being an annoyance to an actual threat to national security and would be disappeared.

[Dorsidwarf]

Do remember that Asante doesn't have a magical sphere of diplomatic invincibility. If he did shit like leaking NORAD codes or nuclear material the equadorians would drop him like a rotten turd