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[martinuzz]

Further: discrimination is discrimination.  It is wrong to subject any group to unfair treatment, black, poor, hispanic, whatever.

The Voter ID law in itself is not discriminatory in nature. The fact that poor people (of whom an arguably disproportionate number is not white) cannot afford an ID however, is discriminatory. Mostly of the poor class as a whole. With affordable ID for everyone, the Voter ID law would be an improvement to ensure fair voting.

[Frumple]

But that only proves that the bias is against persons likely to vote against the Republican party, not that 'racism' is involved.

... mate, some of those were specifically noted to be designed to disproportionately effect minorities while avoiding similarly well off non-minorities. You have to twist your thinking real bloody hard to call that anything but racist. It may not be the whole of the motivations involved but it's damn sure involved.

[NullForceOmega]

No, I don't have to twist my thinking at all, it clearly states that the law in question affects lower-income voters, that does not make it racist, it makes it classist as it unfairly targets members of that income bracket, which includes all ethnicities, though not in equal distribution.

[mainiac]

The Voter ID law in itself is not discriminatory in nature. The fact that poor people (of whom an arguably disproportionate number is not white) cannot afford an ID is discriminatory. Mostly of the poor class as a whole.

The voter IDs came after the ID situation.  If the laws didn't have a racist impact, no one would want to make them.  So the laws themselves are racist in nature.

No, I don't have to twist my thinking at all, it clearly states that the law in question affects lower-income voters,

Amazing how you read around the explicit statements by federal judges of demonstrated racist intent.

Fucking white people...

[NullForceOmega]

Fucking white people...

Congrats, now you're racist.  Personal attacks are a bad idea mainiac.

[Rolan7]

Fucking white people...

Congrats, now you're racist.  Personal attacks are a bad idea mainiac.

God I fucking hate white people sometimes.

^^

The world would be a much better place if we decided that for the next three or four elections white men weren't allowed to vote in the US.  You are so careful not to overreact when it's other people that bear all the pain.

Yeah, Mainiac?  You're being absurdly racist.

Laws which prejudice against the poor are not targeting blacks, they are targeting the poor.  Often because the poor are usually liberals, IE likely to vote Democrat.  It's not a race thing.  There are just a lot of poor black people, and it scans SO WELL to cry racism.  When it's really attacks against the poor and the criminalized, which are issues we all have to deal with.

[martinuzz]

No, I don't have to twist my thinking at all, it clearly states that the law in question affects lower-income voters,

Amazing how you read around the explicit statements by federal judges of demonstrated racist intent.

Fucking white people...

What if it's not? Classic divide and conquer there.

[smjjames]

The whole point is that the Republicans are deliberately (there may be some well intentioned cases) using voter ID laws to suppress potential democratic voters, and guess who are mostly democratic? Minorities and poor people.

Also chill out a little bit guys.....

[Frumple]

... having been around the sorts trying to push for these laws. No. No, they're racist, at the absolute least in part. They're other things as well, sure, but the good ol' boy core of the GOP/conservative establishment, especially on the lower levels, definitely have quite a number that are racist as fuck. I've literally been around more than a few of them, out of state, in state, blighters as high up as congress members and district attorneys, as they discussed avoiding black neighborhoods and whatnot. They ain't talkin' about the poor. These folks don't give two shits if the guy down the street is a poverty line alcoholic ex-con, so long as they're white.

[smjjames]

Not to mention the fact that they usually give 'voter fraud' as a reason when it's actually a very minor problem. In fact, electoral issues are much more likely to arise from other things, Florida 2000 and 'hanging chads' anybody?

[mainiac]

Laws which prejudice against the poor are not targeting blacks, they are targeting the poor.  Often because the poor are usually liberals, IE likely to vote Democrat.  It's not a race thing.  There are just a lot of poor black people, and it scans SO WELL to cry racism.  When it's really attacks against the poor and the criminalized, which are issues we all have to deal with.

Did you miss the part where two different federal panels of judges who are infinitely better informed then you said that there was in fact intentional racism?

Holy fuck do I fucking hate goddamn white people.

What if it's not?

But here's the thing... It is.  And I provided you with two different circuit courts saying it is and some federal appeals courts.  And if you want you could read up on this issue and see that there are a lot of other people that say so.

Like yes I TOTALLY get how there could be a case where it happens to not be a race thing.  I too was once a freshman in college and enjoyed intellectual masturbation.

There is a certain point at which you stop being open minded and start being a useful idiot.  And it's always this way when it comes to the US and racism.  No white person is EVER wrong going all the way back to Robert Lee.  Never.  We always let the white people off the hook.  It's just a grand mystery where all this really racist documents come from when no one is ever to blame at the time except maybe for some bizarre fringe cases.

They were literally found guilty in a court of law of doing a racist thing.  I am literally using the world "literally" in the literal sense.  A court literally sat down, verified a bunch of evidence, allowed them to defend themselves and consulted the opinions of all the best experts.  Then that court said that beyond a reasonable doubt they were guilty... and you say what if hypothetically they weren't guilty.

Well yes, if we lived in a different fucking world the world would be quite the different fucking place.  But why do we suddenly ask that question at this juncture?  We aren't in the middle of talking about Donald Trump's tax returns when people ask "hey guys, what if gasoline was powered by rainbows?"  It's always when it's racism that we suddenly start going "oh wait man but what if reality is just a dream and all this 'evidence' is just bullshit man?"

Fucking white people, man.

[misko27]

mainiac reminded me of those petitions I see on Whitehouse.org that say shit like "PUT THE PHRASE "ANTI-RACIST IS CODEWORD FOR ANTI-WHITE" ON THE US DOLLAR BILL".

[Rolan7]

I'm not going to just take it on faith that voter fraud is so incredibly "minor" as our party (Democrat) says it is. 

This is ridiculous, a name is not a suitable unique identifier.  And yet we still identified so many cases of dead people voting.  It's happening.  On a large scale, and quite reasonably.  We Democrats made such a stink about theoretically vulnerable voting machines in 2000 and 2004, with no evidence of it actually happening in reality.  We *know* this is happening, and want to dismiss it.  (Didn't the machines just produce paper ballots to feed into the main machine?  Most people wouldn't notice, but SOMEONE would have noticed.) 

Everyone should have an ID card.  It ought to be free, ideally.  But let's keep in mind that it's a ~$15 cost every, what, 4 years?

I don't want to be associated with voter fraud.  My first vote was in 2000, and I'm still not convinced Gore lost.  If we're letting people vote with no ID, an online vote could easily be more secure.  Which is saying something.

@mainiac:  I see your post, and this is my response:.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

Well, there's also a little bit of a difference, in that USA doesn't have a giant barbed wire around it with a guard system designed to kill people trying to flee the country, also, it doesn't have bread lines and massive deficit of basic goods, but those are just minor details, right?

Just you wait, the free market will show you who's boss, then you'll be sorry

Bigger difference is that instead of only the top 0.1% controlling the government, it's the top 10%.

It's hundreds of times more democratic, don't you see!?

It's sad that I can't even figure out whether the US is the 0.1 or the 10%. I'm fairly sure it's the 0.1.

Also, @everyoneWhoNotedThatTheUSDoesn'tHaveBarbedWire etc.:

Have you seen the Mexico border? We might not have barbed wire, but BUILD A WALL IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

And similarly, the US isn't in Asia, it borders the Atlantic, and its name has an m in it. I'm talking BIG stuff, not details. The power isn't in the hands of the people, everything else is moot. That's not democracy. That's not just.

@Raceflamewar:

Mainiac, I get you. I totally get you. The situation is fucking horrible.

But what you're doing it's helping any. It's not constructive. It's only going to get you thrown out. Let's be civil here, okay?

[Chevaleresse]

oh boy, people thinking that being racist against white people is okay because they're the root of all evil and cannot even think of stopping their relentless oppression of nonwhites

this is my favorite thing, let me tell you