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[Starver]

This is ridiculous, a name is not a suitable unique identifier.  And yet we still identified so many cases of dead people voting.  It's happening.  On a large scale, and quite reasonably.

I'm going to have to go searching for the source for you, but on the back of the "OMG WTF THE DEAD ARE VOTING!" scare stories there was an actual analysis of the 'hundreds of votes' (out of more than tens of thousands of total votes, thus <<1%) that was the poster-child for dead people's votes and it was found that a number of those zombie votes were erroneous name matches (live people with the same name as a dead person voted, and got caught in the 'fraud sieve'), others were miscoded SSNs or similar (live people voted as normal, but their votes ascribed to dead ones), a further few were incorrectly registered as dead and the one actually dead person who had voted had voted by postal vote and then died before polling day...

Which is not to say it hasn't been done fraudulently, ever, but if zombie votes are a problem, it is likely that other electoral problems are yet greater concerns...

(Now let me hunt down my source for that.)

[mainiac]

So just to clarify... accusing voter ID laws of being racist because multiple federal judges have found them to be so... "let's not rush to conclusions!"

Accusing people of voting fraud despite no evidence ever finding that to be a problem... "good enough for me!"

Fucking white people, man.  Fucking white people.

[Rolan7]

I guess if you dismiss the evidence, there is none
Really don't care for your racism, but hey.  You do you, mainiac.

This is ridiculous, a name is not a suitable unique identifier.  And yet we still identified so many cases of dead people voting.  It's happening.  On a large scale, and quite reasonably.

I'm going to have to go searching for the source for you, but on the back of the "OMG WTF THE DEAD ARE VOTING!" scare stories there was an actual analysis of the 'hundreds of votes' (out of more than tens of thousands of total votes, thus <<1%) that was the poster-child for dead people's votes and it was found that a number of those zombie votes were erroneous name matches (live people with the same name as a dead person voted, and got caught in the 'fraud sieve'), others were miscoded SSNs or similar (live people voted as normal, but their votes ascribed to dead ones), a further few were incorrectly registered as dead and the one actually dead person who had voted had voted by postal vote and then died before polling day...

Yeah to be fair, California apparently had "hundreds" of zombie votes.  With a population of like 38 million.  Even with low turnout, yeah, basically insignificant.

Which is not to say it hasn't been done fraudulently, ever, but if zombie votes are a problem, it is likely that other electoral problems are yet greater concerns...

That's what scares me more, really.  But the evidence is just caught zombie votes.  Which might be improperly caught in the "fraud sieve" as you say.

oh boy, people thinking that being racist against white people is okay because they're the root of all evil and cannot even think of stopping their relentless oppression of nonwhites

this is my favorite thing, let me tell you

It's kind of telling that the Left is fracturing on issues like that.  "Progressives vs regressives", I guess, though nobody calls themself regressive.
Kinda surprised it wasn't really an issue in the election this cycle, except race to some extent.  I suppose it's still gestating in the internet for now.  It's almost ready though, I think.  A 14 year old now will be able to vote for the next president.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Mainiac, would you care to disambiguate? Are you, in fact, making a generalization about Caucasian individuals?

On related news: I am seriously pissed about some "feminists" who are basically being sexist about men. And I'm not talking about the 99.99% of feminists, I'm talking about the very noisy majority. Fuck them, seriously, I'm standing up for women as much as I fucking can. And then for some to turn around and DO THE SAME THING I'M TRYING TO STOP HAPPENING TO THEM, BUT THIS TIME TO MEN. WILL THEY NEVER LEARN?! And thus I see the inequality inherent in the system.

I haven't heard much about a race-analog of this, but I'm sure it exists. Just have to ignore it and move on, I guess.

[mainiac]

Really don't care for your racism, but hey.  You do you, mainiac.

I just find it so funny that SUDDENLY this word is in so many peoples vocabulary.  Gee, why would sarcastic teasing set people off in this case?  People were so quick to say "let's not rush to calling it racist" but apparently sarcastic teasing is a bridge too far.

So if I'm racist are Dave Chapel and Aaron McGruder literally Hitler?

Mainiac, would you care to disambiguate? Are you, in fact, making a generalization about Caucasian individuals?

I would prefer to reambiguate.  Like all forms of satire there is a serious and a non serious part.  I could go into details if you want but it would be pretty freaking self indulgent.

[Chevaleresse]

i guess people are shy about the race issues in America because it's super touchy and it's very, very easy for someone to misinterpret what you mean as the exact opposite of what you said, or to have someone believe that your stance on the matter makes things worse (e.g. complaints about gradualism or the idea of "color blindness) and therefore it makes you racist. It's difficult to talk about because people on both sides get upset really fast.

At least that's what I see in my rather uneducated opinion. (That's also why I don't actually talk in here much, by the way; I don't keep up with this sort of thing nearly as well as I probably should.)


also it's one thing to claim satire but the repeated nature of it and lack of any real joking tone (other than maybe bitter sarcasm) kind of makes it hard to distinguish from the kind of racism found in a lot of members of minorities in America

[misko27]

I am 99% certain the joke is mainiac is white. The only real way to tell he's joking is that its mainiac.

In any case, I'm extremely concerned that Trump is now turning to the path of preemptively accusing his opponent of stealing the election.

[Helgoland]

Could you guys cut out this whole anti-white racism quote unquote discussion? I'm amazed that this thread got to more than 160 pages without going down in flames, and I'd like to see it hit 200.

For the record: mainiac has it pretty much spot on IMO, and some other folks are just making asses of themselves here. We'd be better off without 'fucking white people' after every second sentence though - it's neither humorous nor sardonic.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

So when you said "fucking white people", you were being funny? Because you were pretending to be racist against yourself?

*VulcanDozebom is confused, but understands that humour isn't something you can put into equations*

[Rolan7]

Really don't care for your racism, but hey.  You do you, mainiac.

I just find it so funny that SUDDENLY this word is in so many peoples vocabulary.  Gee, why would sarcastic teasing set people off in this case?  People were so quick to say "let's not rush to calling it racist" but apparently sarcastic teasing is a bridge too far.

So if I'm racist are Dave Chapel and Aaron McGruder literally Hitler?

Oh good you were just being sarcastic!  That's good.  I figured, but I kinda wanted you to say it because it wasn't obvious.  At all.
It's hard to tell when we're supposed to dismiss your over the top posts as jokes, sometimes.

Mainiac, would you care to disambiguate? Are you, in fact, making a generalization about Caucasian individuals?

I would prefer to reambiguate.  Like all forms of satire there is a serious and a non serious part.  I could go into details if you want but it would be pretty freaking self indulgent.

...So it was a subtle mix.  We're supposed to filter your words through tone (ha) and through your personal understanding of what is reasonable and what must be satire.
That's... not a thing you should expect people to do in internet posts.  Even people who generally like you.

Could you guys cut out this whole anti-white racism quote unquote discussion? I'm amazed that this thread got to more than 160 pages without going down in flames, and I'd like to see it hit 200.

For the record: mainiac has it pretty much spot on IMO, and some other folks are just making asses of themselves here. We'd be better off without 'fucking white people' after every second sentence though - it's neither humorous nor sardonic.

Sure, I'll be gone for a while now anyway.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Hah. On the internet, everybody's dragged down to my level of tone-deafness.

[Rolepgeek]

So, a. Most laws designed to prevent voter fraud are, in point of fact, racist. They can very well be racist and elitist at the same time, it turns out. Don't get me wrong, I find the 'disproportionately affects people of color' line to be quite tiresome. But that don't mean it's false. I looked at one of the old literacy tests they would give people in order to choose who could vote. And it was them choosing. Those things are goddamned confusing, and I got a 800 in the reading SATs, so at the very least it'snot me being thick about it. Voter fraud is not a common issue in the US. And reasons can overlap. Blacks tend to be democratic, so it's an easy way to consolidate voting blocks. Is it Ku Klux Klan style racist? No, probably not. It's still intentionally blocking minorities. Keeping out other poor folks is just icing on the cake.

B.yes, mainiac, you're cool and pragmatic and loyal to the party and you hate the other tribe more than anyone else. Congrats. You win the status competition. You want to keep being an edgy asshole of the liberal persuasion, or do you want to practice what you preach and treat your fellow forumites with respect and dignity?

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you grudgingly agreed. Please don't disprove my misguided assumption. Thank you.

I'm not gonna go into the whole 'fucking white people' thing or 'infinitely more informed' stuff if you can agree to that.

Well, there's also a little bit of a difference, in that USA doesn't have a giant barbed wire around it with a guard system designed to kill people trying to flee the country, also, it doesn't have bread lines and massive deficit of basic goods, but those are just minor details, right?

Just you wait, the free market will show you who's boss, then you'll be sorry

Bigger difference is that instead of only the top 0.1% controlling the government, it's the top 10%.

It's hundreds of times more democratic, don't you see!?

It's sad that I can't even figure out whether the US is the 0.1 or the 10%. I'm fairly sure it's the 0.1.

...you are wrong. As far as I am aware given what I've read, the USA is confirm-ably more democratic than the USSR. It is the 10%. The elites. We have a fairly large upper crust, though it gets pretty damn pointy. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here; people can be wrong, myself included, without being stupid or evil or naive little shits. I think you're probably fairly anti-capitalist and that this maybe colors your view. Building a wall would be pretty stupid, for various reasons, but preventing illegal immigration is not in and of itself evil.

So who wants to talk about how stupid felons being disallowed from voting is? Or how some places will turn away 30+ different people who happen to have the same name as a felon, often under orders, even after it's proven that they are not that person?

[mainiac]

Oh good you were just being sarcastic!  That's good.  I figured, but I kinda wanted you to say it because it wasn't obvious.  At all.
It's hard to tell when we're supposed to dismiss your over the top posts as jokes, sometimes.

Satire aint the same thing as sarcasm.  Satire is srs bznss.  But I'm done now.  If it makes you feel better, the part that wasn't "fucking white people" stands entirely on it's own.

[Starver]

Which is not to say it hasn't been done fraudulently, ever, but if zombie votes are a problem, it is likely that other electoral problems are yet greater concerns...

That's what scares me more, really.  But the evidence is just caught zombie votes.  Which might be improperly caught in the "fraud sieve" as you say.

A particularly thorough investigation can be prone to False Positives (see also McCarthyism) that indicate overzealousness that needs to be accounted for.

A particularly lax investigation can result in False Negatives that leave unrevealed many actual cases of interest.

A study that does both probably needs to be redone better, because it's of practically no use to man nor beast.  Except to be siezed upon as handy 'proof' of whichever agenda one wishes, perhaps.

Charitably, therefore, I believe that it's just a study of the first kind (the meta-analysis that I'm still looking for shows false positives), and whether it is that or an actual example of the third it is discredited as usefully supporting the necrophobic position.

[SirQuiamus]

For the record: mainiac has it pretty much spot on IMO, and some other folks are just making asses of themselves here. We'd be better off without 'fucking white people' after every second sentence though - it's neither humorous nor sardonic.

Yes. This.

Okay, everyone. Before responding to this thread, please read through this, and this, and  this.

I mean every single word in these links. After that, you can post.