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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1412674 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14115 on: November 28, 2016, 12:01:37 am »

In the sense of 'openly racist' as in spouting racist slurs, no, he never did any of that (women are another matter however).

But yeah, the overly focusing on him being racist and labelling his supporters as racist (or 'baskets of deplorables')rather than focusing on his policies is one reason why the Dems lost.

Yes I can see that.

As for "Why the Dems lost" I should state that the vast majority of Trump coverage was completely not the Democrats... Which is odd that they are given the credit for ALL of it.

Trump attracted, people believe intentionally, media coverage mostly negative. It certainly seems like Hillary did nothing but a smear campaign when you assume all Trump coverage was done by her :P
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Lagslayer

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14116 on: November 28, 2016, 12:12:45 am »

>ISIS (a Non-Islamic Organization)
>also implying islam is a race

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Vilanat

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14117 on: November 28, 2016, 12:14:43 am »

Wait are we rewriting history again that Trump WASN'T openly racist because he won?

Wasn't he the one who said that all illegal [Mexican] immigrants are rapists and murderers (err wait SORRY that Mexico... was sending their rapists and murderers)? As well as the one who said that in response to ISIS (a Non-Islamic Organization) we should keep out Muslims?


The Islamic State of Iraq and al Sham isn't Islamic? what is it? buddhist?
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14118 on: November 28, 2016, 12:20:04 am »

>ISIS (a Non-Islamic Organization)
>also implying islam is a race

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes foolish me for saying Islam is a race... OHH WAIT! isn't there a Race of people who are known for being Islamic who are lumped into it? And wait isn't MOST of the controversy surrounding Islam not the religion but the people and their governments?

Might not be the Jew situation mind you... but still. To use one is to use the other :P

That is the great thing about the fact that people use the term Islamic to mean Muslim to mean Middle Easterner interchangeably.

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The Islamic State of Iraq and al Sham isn't Islamic? what is it? buddhist?

A large portion of their numbers are not Islamic. At least that is what I am told.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 12:23:03 am by Neonivek »
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Lagslayer

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14119 on: November 28, 2016, 12:27:59 am »

>ISIS (a Non-Islamic Organization)
>also implying islam is a race

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes foolish me for saying Islam is a race... OHH WAIT! isn't there a Race of people who are known for being Islamic who are lumped into it? And wait isn't MOST of the controversy surrounding Islam not the religion but the people and their governments?

Might not be the Jew situation mind you... but still. To use one is to use the other :P

That is the great thing about the fact that people use the term Islamic to mean Muslim to mean Middle Easterner interchangeably.

Quote
The Islamic State of Iraq and al Sham isn't Islamic? what is it? buddhist?

A large portion of their numbers are not Islamic. At least that is what I am told.
So you're saying that "islam" and "arabs" are basically synonymous?

Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14120 on: November 28, 2016, 12:29:53 am »

I am not saying they are synonymous.

I am saying they are used synonymously.
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GreatJustice

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14121 on: November 28, 2016, 12:30:59 am »

Quote
“And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“I think the guy is lazy,” Trump said of a black employee, according to O’Donnell. “And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Quote
There's a source attributing the statement "Laziness is a trait in blacks" to Donald Trump dating back to the early 1990s. It should be noted, however, that that source is a book written by a disgruntled former employee of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, John R. O'Donnell, and neither the statement nor the sentiment behind it has been corroborated elsewhere. ... As the Washington Post noted, it is, at best, a secondhand quote from a private conversation, written down years after the fact, and should be viewed "with some skepticism."

Quote
It's how he's a birther. It's how he eats a taco bowl and says "I love Hispanics!" It's how he says “they don’t look like Indians to me... They don’t look like Indians to Indians.” It's how, after a BLM protestor is beaten up, he says “Maybe [the protester] should have been roughed up,” and “It was absolutely disgusting what he was doing.” It's how he stereotypes Jews. It's how he uses his African American supporters as tokens (“look at my African American over here”).

Yeah. He's pretty fucking racist. But he never said the word "n*gg*r", so on second thought he's actually okay! /sarcasm

Quote
Whatever bizarre, divisive, ill-advised, and revolting thing you’re about to mention, the answer is probably yes.

This is equally true on race-related and non-race-related issues. People ask “How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Kenya, if he wasn’t racist?” I don’t know. How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that vaccines cause autism? How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that the Clintons killed Vince Foster? How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that Ted Cruz’s father shot JFK?

Trump will apparently believe anything for any reason, especially about his political opponents. If Clinton had been black but Obama white, we’d be hearing that the Vince Foster conspiracy theory proves Trump’s bigotry, and the birtherism was just harmless wackiness.

Likewise, how could Trump insult a Mexican judge just for being Mexican? I don’t know. How could Trump insult a disabled reporter just for being disabled? How could Trump insult John McCain just for being a beloved war hero? Every single person who’s opposed him, Trump has insulted in various offensive ways, including 140 separate incidents of him calling someone “dopey” or “dummy” on Twitter, and you expect him to hold his mouth just because the guy is a Mexican?

I don’t think people appreciate how weird this guy is. His weird way of speaking. His catchphrases like “haters and losers!” or “Sad!”. His tendency to avoid perfectly reasonable questions in favor of meandering tangents about Mar-a-Lago. The ability to bait him into saying basically anything just by telling him people who don’t like him think he shouldn’t.

If you insist that Trump would have to be racist to say or do whatever awful thing he just said or did, you are giving him too much credit. Trump is just randomly and bizarrely terrible. Sometimes his random and bizarre terribleness is about white people, and then we laugh it off. Sometimes it’s about minorities, and then we interpret it as racism.

Quote
...not really. Liberals acknowledge global warming - that alone sets them far above Trump and his bros, and their policies reflect this IIRC. Not that liberals are supergreat, I mean they're all corrupt honestly, but they're my team dammit! :P

Liberals: "Global warming is a thing!"

Me: "Alright, sure, what's your solution?"

Liberals: "Uh... Let's tax the corporations or give solar companies money or something like that"

Me: "Isn't that what you'd do regardless of whether or not global warming was a thing?"

Liberals: "Uh... I guess so?"

It's easy to be "scientifically literate" when your preconceived notions about policy let you use "science" as a justification to do what you would have done anyway.

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Oh, FFS, wrong =/= smug. It was the un-PC effect - nobody's going to tell a pollster that they voted for Trump of all people (And on the more conspiratorial side, I suspect some shady action from those Russians...)

There was a hell of a lot more to it than "We think it is more likely that Hillary will win the election", but I'll get to that.

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The usual SJW idiots. No sane liberal claimed that RACIST WHITES won Trump the election. And if they did, they're No True Liberal :P

That's a very convenient definition of "sane liberal" you have there. I knew a few sane liberals, but they tended towards the views of that guy who wrote the article that you dislike for some reason, as in "I dislike Hillary but I don't want Trump anywhere near the nuclear launch codes". They also seemed to have a lot less to say than the likes of

WHITE FLIGHT FROM REALITY: INSIDE THE RACIST PANIC THAT FUELED DONALD TRUMP'S VICTORY

and

MAKE NO MISTAKE: DONALD TRUMP'S WIN REPRESENTS A RACIST "WHITELASH"

Quote
...not really? Why do you say that? Give evidence, c'mon.

I could give you examples all day, but here's a forum of mostly Democrats laughing to each other about how overwhelmingly Hillary was going to crush Trump. Check anything posted before election day for myriad examples of "smug liberals".



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Blanket un-supported statement. There are a bunch of bitter and angry loud people on Facebook, but they aren't representative of liberals.

Examples already given above. The number of "reasonable liberals" I've seen are few and far between, and when I give an examples of those few that I have seen you go after them like they're conservatives for some reason. Hell, even on this here bastion of "reasonable liberals" I have to deal with smartasses giving me "you can't tell me who I can and can't call a racist" because I think it might be a bad idea to call every non-liberal ever a racist.

Quote
The enemy is certainly distastefully racist, yes. As for the "with us or against us," it's a problem, yes, but as you say, it's not exclusive to liberals. Heh, quite the opposite. It's more of a "human" issue than a "liberal" issue.

So all the conservatives are distastefully racist, then?
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14122 on: November 28, 2016, 12:40:29 am »

Most people are factually centrist (in fact... most states are... >_> even some of the most leaning ones).

It is what makes the party lines all the more odd when you think about it... because if we were to divide people into camps according to their beliefs, the centrists would be the winners.

Quote
Liberals: "Uh... Let's tax the corporations or give solar companies money or something like that"
Me: "Isn't that what you'd do regardless of whether or not global warming was a thing?"
Liberals: "Uh... I guess so?"

Global Warming didn't change what we had to do... It is more of a ticking clock.

The solutions though are pretty difficult to get down on a socio-economic level because we rely heavily on the industry that is causing Global Warming (at least, theoretically). Thus wishy washy solutions while... wishy washy... are the ones most likely to get pushed.

Right now we aren't looking towards change so much that we are hoping for technological advancements that make air pollution a thing of the past.

---

Just imagine if you asked a competent vegetarian who believed eating any animal is wrong... How we could fix problem...

Chances are they aren't going to say to make meat illegal... They would probably suggest to tax meat and give it to vegetables :P

---

Now the reason why they don't like people who don't believe in Global Warming altogether is because they can do a LOOOOOOOOT more harm... Then someone who believes in it can do good. As well policies that benefit business over the environment are many times more difficult to remove then environmental acts.

It takes a hundred people to build a tower, but only one person to break it down.

Your second link doesn't work.

I think it is intentional.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 12:43:35 am by Neonivek »
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Vilanat

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14123 on: November 28, 2016, 12:44:58 am »


A large portion of their numbers are not Islamic. At least that is what I am told.

And who exactly told you that? because that's not misinformation, that's disinformation.

To clarify, no, Islamic State of Iraq and Al Sham do not have a large portion of non-muslim members. i wouldn't be fool enough to think ISIS is 100% muslims, but 99% would'nt be a ridiculous guesstimate.
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14124 on: November 28, 2016, 12:49:54 am »


A large portion of their numbers are not Islamic. At least that is what I am told.

And who exactly told you that? because that's not misinformation, that's disinformation.

To clarify, no, Islamic State of Iraq and Al Sham do not have a large portion of non-muslim members. i wouldn't be fool enough to think ISIS is 100% muslims, but 99% would'nt be a ridiculous guesstimate.

Hmm I can't find anything to contradict this. I'll assume my friend was wrong, but it is odd given he should know...
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Flying Dice

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14125 on: November 28, 2016, 12:51:24 am »

Just got caught up and that was some delicious lack of self-awareness, like a microcosm of the broader reaction in the unthinking left's media hugbox. I'm left wondering if there's a reasonable left left to wake up, or if the core is just delusional narratives all the way down. Unless Trump visibly and repeatedly fucks up and the left does a total U-turn on the past thirty-odd years, we're screwed. At least this election served to shatter my ideological illusions.

I admit, I cackled a little when the Clinton coronation party was canceled and all the courtier smiles turned to frowns. That's what happens when you live in a fantasy world too long, you forget what reality feels like. Reality only has a liberal bias if you're living in a virtual reality with poor verisimilitude. Only human perceptions have bias, and insisting otherwise is pretty much the height of the smugness which people refuse to acknowledge. I'm mostly ashamed that I participated in it. It's rather brutally ironic that so much of the left has become so staunchly anti-liberal while continuing to claim a monopoly on openness and reason.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14126 on: November 28, 2016, 12:59:01 am »

Quote
“And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“I think the guy is lazy,” Trump said of a black employee, according to O’Donnell. “And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Quote
There's a source attributing the statement "Laziness is a trait in blacks" to Donald Trump dating back to the early 1990s. It should be noted, however, that that source is a book written by a disgruntled former employee of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, John R. O'Donnell, and neither the statement nor the sentiment behind it has been corroborated elsewhere. ... As the Washington Post noted, it is, at best, a secondhand quote from a private conversation, written down years after the fact, and should be viewed "with some skepticism."
FTFE, right? We've got... one down, how many left to go?
Quote
Quote
It's how he's a birther. It's how he eats a taco bowl and says "I love Hispanics!" It's how he says “they don’t look like Indians to me... They don’t look like Indians to Indians.” It's how, after a BLM protestor is beaten up, he says “Maybe [the protester] should have been roughed up,” and “It was absolutely disgusting what he was doing.” It's how he stereotypes Jews. It's how he uses his African American supporters as tokens (“look at my African American over here”).

Yeah. He's pretty fucking racist. But he never said the word "n*gg*r", so on second thought he's actually okay! /sarcasm

Quote
Whatever bizarre, divisive, ill-advised, and revolting thing you’re about to mention, the answer is probably yes.

This is equally true on race-related and non-race-related issues. People ask “How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Kenya, if he wasn’t racist?” I don’t know. How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that vaccines cause autism? How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that the Clintons killed Vince Foster? How could Trump believe the wacky conspiracy theory that Ted Cruz’s father shot JFK?

Trump will apparently believe anything for any reason, especially about his political opponents. If Clinton had been black but Obama white, we’d be hearing that the Vince Foster conspiracy theory proves Trump’s bigotry, and the birtherism was just harmless wackiness.

Likewise, how could Trump insult a Mexican judge just for being Mexican? I don’t know. How could Trump insult a disabled reporter just for being disabled? How could Trump insult John McCain just for being a beloved war hero? Every single person who’s opposed him, Trump has insulted in various offensive ways, including 140 separate incidents of him calling someone “dopey” or “dummy” on Twitter, and you expect him to hold his mouth just because the guy is a Mexican?

I don’t think people appreciate how weird this guy is. His weird way of speaking. His catchphrases like “haters and losers!” or “Sad!”. His tendency to avoid perfectly reasonable questions in favor of meandering tangents about Mar-a-Lago. The ability to bait him into saying basically anything just by telling him people who don’t like him think he shouldn’t.

If you insist that Trump would have to be racist to say or do whatever awful thing he just said or did, you are giving him too much credit. Trump is just randomly and bizarrely terrible. Sometimes his random and bizarre terribleness is about white people, and then we laugh it off. Sometimes it’s about minorities, and then we interpret it as racism.
Ahh, I must have skimmed that part. Okay, so if we ignore the cherry-picking, that's a good article. But still, how do we define racism? If it can be applied to statements at all, Trump's "you're biased, Judge, because you're Mexican" - isn't that a racist statement?

If we're judging people's hearts, then Trump isn't racist, sure. He's opportunistic, and he's appealed to racists. But that's not what we're doing. We're judging his words.
Quote
Quote
...not really. Liberals acknowledge global warming - that alone sets them far above Trump and his bros, and their policies reflect this IIRC. Not that liberals are supergreat, I mean they're all corrupt honestly, but they're my team dammit! :P

Liberals: "Global warming is a thing!"

Me: "Alright, sure, what's your solution?"

Liberals: "Uh... Let's tax the corporations or give solar companies money or something like that"

Me: "Isn't that what you'd do regardless of whether or not global warming was a thing?"

Liberals: "Uh... I guess so?"

It's easy to be "scientifically literate" when your preconceived notions about policy let you use "science" as a justification to do what you would have done anyway.
Sure, it's easy to be scientifically literate when you don't let your beliefs get in the way of knowledge. Does that make liberals morally better? No. Do they know more? Yes. Do they make better policy? Yes. Isn't that what matters?
Quote
Quote
Oh, FFS, wrong =/= smug. It was the un-PC effect - nobody's going to tell a pollster that they voted for Trump of all people (And on the more conspiratorial side, I suspect some shady action from those Russians...)

There was a hell of a lot more to it than "We think it is more likely that Hillary will win the election", but I'll get to that.
Okay.
Quote
Quote
The usual SJW idiots. No sane liberal claimed that RACIST WHITES won Trump the election. And if they did, they're No True Liberal :P

That's a very convenient definition of "sane liberal" you have there. I knew a few sane liberals, but they tended towards the views of that guy who wrote the article that you dislike for some reason, as in "I dislike Hillary but I don't want Trump anywhere near the nuclear launch codes".
Funny, that's exactly where I'd put myself. I agree with the writer of SSC on many things, I don't dislike the person. I just think that this article cherry-picked a bit too much for my liking.
Quote
They also seemed to have a lot less to say than the likes of

WHITE FLIGHT FROM REALITY: INSIDE THE RACIST PANIC THAT FUELED DONALD TRUMP'S VICTORY

and

MAKE NO MISTAKE: DONALD TRUMP'S WIN REPRESENTS A RACIST "WHITELASH"
One article. One. Article. This is the face of liberalism, folks.
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Quote
...not really? Why do you say that? Give evidence, c'mon.

I could give you examples all day, but here's a forum of mostly Democrats laughing to each other about how overwhelmingly Hillary was going to crush Trump. Check anything posted before election day for myriad examples of "smug liberals".
A forum. What even is a liberalism? I'm pretty sure that some liberals were smug. But when you give blanket statements like "liberals, in general, were smug," you need more evidence than that.

Quote
Quote
Blanket un-supported statement. There are a bunch of bitter and angry loud people on Facebook, but they aren't representative of liberals.

Examples already given above.
All two of them, yes. The "face of liberalism."
Quote
The number of "reasonable liberals" I've seen are few and far between, and when I give an examples of those few that I have seen you go after them like they're conservatives for some reason.
L-o-fucking-l. I disagree with them. Not because I think they're conservatives, but because I think they're wrong. (And again, SILENCE DISSENT!)
Quote
Hell, even on this here bastion of "reasonable liberals" I have to deal with smartasses giving me "you can't tell me who I can and can't call a racist" because I think it might be a bad idea to call every non-liberal ever a racist.
Strawman much? I don't think that "Trump is racist" is equivalent to "every non-liberal ever is a racist." You might want to have your eyes checked.
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Quote
The enemy is certainly distastefully racist, yes. As for the "with us or against us," it's a problem, yes, but as you say, it's not exclusive to liberals. Heh, quite the opposite. It's more of a "human" issue than a "liberal" issue.

So all the conservatives are distastefully racist, then?
Not all, but *shrug* that's what I see in the alt-right. I realize that their public face might be as inaccurate as the SJWs on Facebook, but what else do I have to go with?
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14127 on: November 28, 2016, 01:04:18 am »

Just got caught up and that was some delicious lack of self-awareness, like a microcosm of the broader reaction in the unthinking left's media hugbox. I'm left wondering if there's a reasonable left left to wake up, or if the core is just delusional narratives all the way down. Unless Trump visibly and repeatedly fucks up and the left does a total U-turn on the past thirty-odd years, we're screwed. At least this election served to shatter my ideological illusions.

I admit, I cackled a little when the Clinton coronation party was canceled and all the courtier smiles turned to frowns. That's what happens when you live in a fantasy world too long, you forget what reality feels like. Reality only has a liberal bias if you're living in a virtual reality with poor verisimilitude. Only human perceptions have bias, and insisting otherwise is pretty much the height of the smugness which people refuse to acknowledge. I'm mostly ashamed that I participated in it. It's rather brutally ironic that so much of the left has become so staunchly anti-liberal while continuing to claim a monopoly on openness and reason.

The US Government process only functions so far as both parties are willing to compromise in order to win the vote.

It is when one and especially both parties are unwilling to change or compromise that the system breaks down for the worst.

Because, and I know I've said it before... But neither Liberals or Conservatives are right (or wrong). The right answer takes elements of both, contradicts one or the other, or may even be something we never imagined... Yet we cannot be satisfied with our current philosophies.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 01:06:18 am by Neonivek »
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PTTG??

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14128 on: November 28, 2016, 01:12:07 am »

Just going to point out, Greatjustice's signature suggests he's intentionally trolling. You'd have to be using insane troll logic to think that Trump somehow didn't base his entire campaign on racism.
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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #14129 on: November 28, 2016, 01:18:34 am »

I think that the reason news has a liberal bias is that reality has a liberal bias...Factually, conservative points are often wrong.
Damn wrongthinkers. World would be perfect if everyone just listened to the right people.
A man in Saudi Arabia goes to read the news, it is biased towards Saudi Arabia and Sunni Islam, that its journalists are students of Sunni theology and employed by Saudis has nothing to do with it: Reality has a Saudi bias
A man in the PRC goes to read the news, it is biased towards the PRC and communism, that its journalists are students of Marxism and employed by the PRC has nothing to do with it, reality has a PRC bias.
e.t.c., pretty deluded to think reality literally revolves around your biases. Worse still, it's the most hideous smugness exhibited in its purest, which is why liberals are so despised
despised
Liberalism does not demand much of people, yet its adherents manage to find themselves despised for their insufferable smugness
gg gj napoleon rolls in his grave
Excsue me, that's not what I said.

Reality does actually lean left of American center.  Hardcore right (alt-right) is demonstrably wrong on a bunch of points (see: conversion therapy in its entirety, 'trans people are all pervs', LGBTQ somehow bringing down society, climate change not existing, anything that claims trickle-down actually works, 'immigrants are a seedy crimefest', etc..)
Well, the liberals are wrong about the climate, just like the right, but for the most part it is true that one party in the US has defined itself by rejection of science.

It is a fact that there is no skyparent watching people to see if they're being gay or praying in school or mutilating babydicks properly, there are things which are tied with that and fall under the US conservative/right wing umbrella, so those positions are less grounded in reality.
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