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[Starver]

We've gone over this, it didn't say "Leave..."

It said "Leave the European Union."

You know very well that it was a handy ellipsis that was always going to be easily understood as refering to the longer version. I even ignored the "kek" in a prior message to try and justify my abandoning my self-restricting moritorium on trying to negotiate with your particular brand of wilful and obdurate contrariness. I should know better.

[Loud Whispers]

You know very well that it was a handy ellipsis that was always going to be easily understood as refering to the longer version. I even ignored the "kek" in a prior message to try and justify my abandoning my self-restricting moritorium on trying to negotiate with your particular brand of wilful and obdurate contrariness. I should know better.

Well this is disappointing

I originally wrote out
"We've gone over this, it didn't say "Leave... I want to annoy David Cameron" e.t.c. (with the rest typed out in the same format).
Just thought it got to the point far quicker to just put it was not "Leave..." but "Leave the European Union." It was obvious you were trying to avoid the beautiful simplicity of the statement "Leave the European Union" to suggest that people who chose "Leave the European Union" did not intend to "Leave the European Union," and the former is far more laconic than the latter. I deliberately ignored your long versions because they are wrong.

Thus you want me to read "Leave... No purely hypothetical EU superstate, but everything else is Ok, thanks."
I want you to read what was actually voted for on the ballots: "Leave the European Union."

End of the day, while this conversation is fruitful, the notion that those who chose "Leave the European Union" really wanted to stay in the European Union is something you cannot negotiate on - it's wrong.

[Neonivek]

Ahh that makes a lot more sense.
Also I am glad I am entertaining someone.

I dunno man, your posts are kinda boring
They don't really explain your view or add any insight or facts to the discussion, they're mostly just affirmations of someone else's opinions with virtue signalling

Your really REALLY assuming a lot out of me that isn't there (as well as the typical completely misunderstanding my basic words)

Though I guess I should step up my game a little... No that would actually be a bad idea. Since it would make you defensive and then I'll have to deal with defense posts... Instead of "Ohhh!" and defense posts are always worse.

I am just waiting for a development but it seems like the UK has "relatively" calmed down.

---

End of the day, while this conversation is fruitful, the notion that those who chose "Leave the European Union" really wanted to stay in the European Union is something you cannot negotiate on - it's wrong

There is certainly an argument there. It was certainly the case where people were surprised that leaving the European Union meant leaving the European Union and kind of wanted all the advantages with none of the disadvantages.

A Similar thing happens in a war where people will call for one... and then are surprised that going to war means you actually go to war. They wanted the imaginary perfectly perfect moralistic war in their head where no one died.

Though I'd have no idea how one could argue it and come up with numbers... Though I doubt one could make it for ALL the Leavers.

It... Actually is a very interesting topic that I would like to see though. Not because of "Boo! Leavers" (so stow that).

[Leafsnail]

One good thing that's come from the Daily Mail hatemongering over this ruling is that I've learnt we have an openly gay ex-olympic fencer sitting on our high court. That's pretty awesome.

[Neonivek]

One good thing that's come from the Daily Mail hatemongering over this ruling is that I've learnt we have an openly gay ex-olympic fencer sitting on our high court. That's pretty awesome.

Now that is an interesting career path. (No, not saying gay is a career path).

Though... hmmm... It actually made me check if being gay could prevent you from going to the Olympics and so far I can't find anything on that.

Though Daily Mail Hatemongering? Can you explain this? Last I heard anything like this was the initial surge of bigoted hatemail being sent to foreigners after the initial Brexit results.

[RedKing]

Having an independent court that ensures that the government is acting within the law is an important part of democracy.

The backlash against the judges for making a legal decision really worries me.

Meh....the losers in a judicial decision railing about "threats to democracy" is a standard part of democracy. Here in the States they use the term "judicial activism" to mean "Judge didn't rule the way I wanted, so fuck him and fuck the law".


For my part, I'm giggling maniacally at the thought of all that potential thwarted Brexit rage. Britain will once again be the world's largest salt exporter, even surpassing the output of a Trump-boosted post-election America. (Now if Trump wins, all bets are off. We're talking Strategic-level salt deployment then.)

[TheBiggerFish]

You know very well that it was a handy ellipsis that was always going to be easily understood as refering to the longer version. I even ignored the "kek" in a prior message to try and justify my abandoning my self-restricting moritorium on trying to negotiate with your particular brand of wilful and obdurate contrariness. I should know better.

Well this is disappointing

I originally wrote out
"We've gone over this, it didn't say "Leave... I want to annoy David Cameron" e.t.c. (with the rest typed out in the same format).
Just thought it got to the point far quicker to just put it was not "Leave..." but "Leave the European Union." It was obvious you were trying to avoid the beautiful simplicity of the statement "Leave the European Union" to suggest that people who chose "Leave the European Union" did not intend to "Leave the European Union," and the former is far more laconic than the latter. I deliberately ignored your long versions because they are wrong.

Thus you want me to read "Leave... No purely hypothetical EU superstate, but everything else is Ok, thanks."
I want you to read what was actually voted for on the ballots: "Leave the European Union."

End of the day, while this conversation is fruitful, the notion that those who chose "Leave the European Union" really wanted to stay in the European Union is something you cannot negotiate on - it's wrong.

Er...There were a bunch of Remain supporters who voted Leave, mostly because they wanted it to be closer.

[Leafsnail]

Now that is an interesting career path. (No, not saying gay is a career path).

Though... hmmm... It actually made me check if being gay could prevent you from going to the Olympics and so far I can't find anything on that.

Though Daily Mail Hatemongering? Can you explain this? Last I heard anything like this was the initial surge of bigoted hatemail being sent to foreigners after the initial Brexit results.

They branded the judges 'enemies of the people', specifically calling out one as openly gay.

[Loud Whispers]

Your really REALLY assuming a lot out of me that isn't there (as well as the typical completely misunderstanding my basic words)

Neonivek all the posts I have read of you show, is that you are fond of making judgements on other people's countries when you yourself don't know what's going on, and that you enjoy making sarcastic posts mocking others beliefs but refuse to provide any justification for your own :/
Any other poster who thought I was misunderstanding their words would for example, get moderately livid and prove me wrong, showing how I misunderstood their words. You just say it and do nothing, as if it means something O_o

Though I guess I should step up my game a little... No that would actually be a bad idea. Since it would make you defensive and then I'll have to deal with defense posts... Instead of "Ohhh!" and defense posts are always worse.

You don't need to step up your game, just put some effort into your posts, and the way you talk of "dealing with defense posts"
wat
No seriously what is that? Do you actually live in a world where everyone agrees with you? I cannot fathom someone for whom normal human dialogue is wasted in such a manner, or someone for whom a normal discussion is treated with threat assessment

I am just waiting for a development but it seems like the UK has "relatively" calmed down.

If a development occurs what would you do? Because you don't want a discussion and I have no idea what you want in lieu of a discussion lol

There is certainly an argument there. It was certainly the case where people were surprised that leaving the European Union meant leaving the European Union and kind of wanted all the advantages with none of the disadvantages.

"It was certainly the case"
No it was not :P. For one you provide no evidence, for seconds this disagrees with all the campaigning I saw and for thirds the factions that campaigned to leave are currently campaigning to leave every EU institution, the drive to remain in the single market is being led by pro-EU MPs who campaigned on behalf of Remain. I haven't met a single person to date who voted to Leave the European Union, who was under the illusion that this didn't mean Leave the European Union, you may have confused those who wanted to ensure no trader barriers were erected with Remain who want to stay in the single market.
Kinda leaves me scratching my head in confusion at what insight you have found to make a definite argument ~o.o~

A Similar thing happens in a war where people will call for one... and then are surprised that going to war means you actually go to war. They wanted the imaginary perfectly perfect moralistic war in their head where no one died.
Though I'd have no idea how one could argue it and come up with numbers... Though I doubt one could make it for ALL the Leavers.
It... Actually is a very interesting topic that I would like to see though. Not because of "Boo! Leavers" (so stow that).

Ah yeah now we're getting somewhere :D
I know what you mean, I know people who support a war fervently to protect civilians, then very passionately switch to opposing the self-same war the first moment a civilian is killed in the crossfire. I get the idea but I haven't found any evidence for it - if there was, there'd be more buyer's remorse. Reposting from before, despite the prevalence of Regrexit stories in the media, there was no evidence that Remain or Leave voters had changed their mind.

I was in the local coop and saw the papers. It was basically 'THE JUDGES ARE EVIL AND WANT TO RUIN THE COUNTRY! HOW DARE THEY BE SUCH BASTARDS!'
I was stood there thinking 'They interpret the law. You want to get pissy with them for being as unbiased as possible in interpreting the law?'
Of course, they're newspapers. The people running them would kill their own mothers if they thought it would generate enough controversy to sell more.

They're now roasting Liz Truss for not condemning the press

Speaking of, when is the appeal judgement going to be announced anyways? I can't find a lick of news on that, so I'm assuming it's announced whenever the 11 Justices figure out an answer they like

[Neonivek]

Loud Whispers even IF one could point to regrexit it wouldn't exactly prove the point anyhow... Only that people might he a bit more beaten down by the consequences rather then being "delusional" as to what went down... and even some of the doomsayers probably weren't expecting the sudden economic jolts that occurred immediately following.

It is one of the major reasons why the UK can't do another referendum vote and expect a honest result.

I get the idea but I haven't found any evidence for it

I can only say it exists because... well... it must exist on some level due to human nature with at least some number of people.

But yeah not only could I never hope to tell you how prevalent it is (or how unprevelant)... But even if the laws of reality broke and 100% of the Leave votes were this, I don't think it is easily provable.

Though what I meant isn't so much that there are people who voted leave who didn't really know they were voted to leave the EU. So much that some might not have thought it through that leaving the EU means they might not have the same advantages as saying in the EU.

Which I'd point to newspapers and articles acting surprised that leaving the EU means they are leaving the EU... But they tend to be alarmist anyhow and likely played up the whole "What? We might not have the same trade position!?! This is incredulous!" aspect.

[martinuzz]

I'm a bit sad that the Brexit will be cancelled. Now Amsterdam won't get all the rich bankers.

[Starver]

Though what I meant isn't so much that there are people who voted leave who didn't really know they were voted to leave the EU. So much that some might not have thought it through that leaving the EU means they might not have the same advantages as saying in the EU.

Reminds me of the broadcast interview with someone outside* the place that they had voted to Leave, in, in a deprived part of Wales where they basically said "What has the EU ever done for this area?", whilst clearly visible behind them on the entry to the obviously new community centre/school/sports venue/whatever was the obvious "Financed by the EU Regional Development Fund", or similar, notice.


* The next day, when it was allowed again to be in the vicinity, as part of covering the result/fallout.

[Wolfhunter107]

Not exactly an auspicious date, that's for sure.

[ChairmanPoo]

Ephemeris of Cicero's murder.

Feel free to use this as a metaphor in whichever scenario ends up happening.

[Radio Controlled]

I know what you mean, I know people who support a war fervently to protect civilians, then very passionately switch to opposing the self-same war the first moment a civilian is killed in the crossfire. I get the idea but I haven't found any evidence for it - if there was, there'd be more buyer's remorse. Reposting from before, despite the prevalence of Regrexit stories in the media, there was no evidence that Remain or Leave voters had changed their mind.

There was that study I linked to a couple of pages back that did show that the amount of 'regrexit' or whatever dumb term it has would be enough to change the outcome should another vote be held, but which also nuances this a bit.
For convenience: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159095.msg7222140#msg7222140