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9 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 88

[martinuzz]

I think it's a travesty that we have a minimum wage.

...

A minimum wage would be completely unnecessary if we just implemented a universal income already. 

I agree with you there. It is similar to what I always say about the food banks in the Netherlands. With all respect to the voluonteers working there out of kindness of heart, the food bank as an institute is a travesty. It's a handy tool for politicians to say 'we don't need to increase welfare checks, because there's food banks.

While minimum wage is corrected for both inflation and purchasing power, social benefits are linked to inflation, but have not been corrected for purchasing power for nearly 40 years now. Last year a survey showed that nearly 300.000 children in the Netherlands go to school without getting breakfast, because parents on social benefits cannot afford that. A blatant shame for a rich country like mine.

[Sheb]

Wait, isn't inflation a measure of the purchasing power of money? How can you adjust for one and not the other?

[martinuzz]

it's a bit more complex than that. Inflation does not account for various changing subsidies, tax law changes, personal risk costs for health care, and availability of affordable required services, to name some examples. Those are taken into account for purchasing power. Purchasing power can be determined on the income group or even personal level, inflation only looks at the economy as a whole.

[Antioch]

I think it's a travesty that we have a minimum wage.

...

A minimum wage would be completely unnecessary if we just implemented a universal income already. 

I agree with you there. It is similar to what I always say about the food banks in the Netherlands. With all respect to the voluonteers working there out of kindness of heart, the food bank as an institute is a travesty. It's a handy tool for politicians to say 'we don't need to increase welfare checks, because there's food banks.

While minimum wage is corrected for both inflation and purchasing power, social benefits are linked to inflation, but have not been corrected for purchasing power for nearly 40 years now. Last year a survey showed that nearly 300.000 children in the Netherlands go to school without getting breakfast, because parents on social benefits cannot afford that. A blatant shame for a rich country like mine.

I am not really seeing how financial reasons are why children don't eat breakfast, because breakfast is cheaper than almost everything else that you can eat.

[Frumple]

... maybe where you're at. Least where I'm at, the low end stereotypically breakfast foods (eggs, milk, bacon, cereal, etc.) tends to be at least as expensive pound for pound as the low end everything else. Often moreso, really (breakfast foods aren't what you eat if you're aiming to eat cheap, unless you've got access to home grown stuff _{that you don't personally have to pay to sustain}), and usually with bigger problems vis a vis time constraints unless it's something like cereal or instant grits/oatmeal/etc. or whatev'.

[martinuzz]

I am not really seeing how financial reasons are why children don't eat breakfast, because breakfast is cheaper than almost everything else that you can eat.

It means they also don't get lunch, unless the school provides. Parents at 'social minimum' in the Netherlands have hard choices to make. If the costs for breakfast and lunch, however small, are just that last little bit that would tip the household balance from neutral to negative, then apparently the parents of 300.000 chldren had to skip those last year. There's not much else to skip on. Can't skip on rent, gas/electra, health insurance or personal risk medical costs children tend to make when playing outdoors. Which is a clear indicator that the purchasing power of people with low income, or at least of parents at low income, is too low. Which is no surprise, since there has been no correction for it in 40 years.

And instead of finally correcting that on income level, instead a small fund is created for schools to provide free lunch for poor children. Kinda makes us look like a third world country. Food banks and child food programs at schools.

[crazyabe]

PTW

[sluissa]

Most schools in the US have a free or reduced price lunch program as well for lower income kids. Occasionally a breakfast program as well. In some cases as well, where a problem is clearly identified, children are also given a supply of food to take home over the weekend so they can eat when they wouldn't be in school.

[Antioch]

... maybe where you're at. Least where I'm at, the low end stereotypically breakfast foods (eggs, milk, bacon, cereal, etc.) tends to be at least as expensive pound for pound as the low end everything else. Often moreso, really (breakfast foods aren't what you eat if you're aiming to eat cheap, unless you've got access to home grown stuff _{that you don't personally have to pay to sustain}), and usually with bigger problems vis a vis time constraints unless it's something like cereal or instant grits/oatmeal/etc. or whatev'.

People in the Netherlands usually eat bread with a topping as breakfast.

The cheapest bread and peanut butter aren't exactly expensive, which is my breakfast surprisingly often.

[martinuzz]

In the Middle Ages the term 'being put on a water and bread diet' was synonymous with being thrown in jail.
I mean, bread and peanut butter is fine and tasty, but not sufficient for healthy growth and development of a child.

I kinda hope you don't have kids.

EDIT: sorry, that might have been a bit harsh. Let me rephrase.
I hope you never get into a financial position where you are forced to raise your kids with only bread and peanut butter for breakfast, let alone no breakfast at all.

[sluissa]

In the Middle Ages the term 'being put on a water and bread diet' was synonymous with being thrown in jail.

It was also a punishment on its own due to the typically painful digestive issues it can cause.

[Frumple]

Ah. Yeah, the considerations change when you're meaning "early morning snack" when you say breakfast :V

Kinda' figure that 300k figure is using a different heuristic, though. Not actually sure, because I'm going to go out on a limb that the methodology of the report that came to that conclusion probably isn't in a language I can understand, and it's too bloody early to go and check and/or hit it with google translate, but it seems like fair guess on the face of it, eheh.

[Antioch]

In the Middle Ages the term 'being put on a water and bread diet' was synonymous with being thrown in jail.
I mean, bread and peanut butter is fine and tasty, but not sufficient for healthy growth and development of a child.

I kinda hope you don't have kids.

EDIT: sorry, that might have been a bit harsh. Let me rephrase.
I hope you never get into a financial position where you are forced to raise your kids with only bread and peanut butter for breakfast, let alone no breakfast at all.

But I am filthy rich and half of the days I still eat breakfast consisting of bread and peanut butter. Usually with lemonade. On other days I eat bread with jam or sliced meat, mostly salami (which is somewhat more expensive yes).

[Sonlirain]

Well bread is cheap. sadly everything worthwhile you can put on it is not.
Maybe except margarine but that's questionably worthwhile.

[Antioch]

Ah. Yeah, the considerations change when you're meaning "early morning snack" when you say breakfast :V

Kinda' figure that 300k figure is using a different heuristic, though. Not actually sure, because I'm going to go out on a limb that the methodology of the report that came to that conclusion probably isn't in a language I can understand, and it's too bloody early to go and check and/or hit it with google translate, but it seems like fair guess on the face of it, eheh.

That's what breakfast is here in the Netherlands.

Ohw and hagelslag is awesome, unfortunately I am mildly intolerant for chocolate.