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[levraininjaneer]

Hi!

I've been running a fort for about 15 dwarf years now and some years I get 2 or 3 capped goblin sieges (about 120 invaders alltogether).

I set up a gauntlet that the invaders need to walk through while being barraged from two sides by 20 or so legendary marksdwarves who are stationed behind some fortifications. I find that marksdwarves fail to hit the fastest moving trolls at all and on slower targets that they can hit and incapacitate, they need to land 40 to 100 bolts on a target to kill it. And I'm talking iron bolts vs unarmored trolls here, or poorly armored goblins. Beak dogs seem to die more easily.

5 of my elite melee dwarves can kill off the entire siege faster than 20 elite marksdwarves take to take out 5 invaders.

Anyone else finding their ranged corps a bit lacklustre lately?

Although I'm guessing that if an enemy takes 5 iron bolts, he'll probably die from injuries to organs etc within a few days...

[taptap]

Don't shoot laterally moving targets. As in many game AI does not lead shots properly thus the nominally better shots really fail vs. laterally moving targets. You will probably find them performing better if you shoot from front and/or behind. Also: know what to expect, incapacitating enemies with no risk to your dwarves is actually big. (Not that usually matters, but the option to do so without risk* to your dwarves should be worth slightly less efficient killing.)

* Apart from elite ranged opponents.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I survived many a Fortress Defence invasion by setting a couple of bunkers near the main gate a good quarter of whatever was rushing the entrance were crawling by the time they reached the melee squad's steel embrace.

Elite dorfs firing straight forward at an advancing mob. They may not score as many kills as you'd like (especially if you're still using wood), but enemies with no legs or bolts in their arms/necks are pretty easy to finish off.

Fully armoured swarms from tomorrow's release may call for a rethink in tactics though.

[Sanctume]

But when it comes to non-bunker style assaults, versus enemies with aoe: dusts, webs, etc., a mix group of melee + range is pretty good. 

On a simple fight, early marksdwarves make good work on those flocks of keas stealing your wagon while your melee dorfs may need to be parked on the wagon for the entire duration until the keas leave the map. 

[Fleeting Frames]

I agree that for situation like you describe, I'd much rather set up some weapon/minecart traps instead of marksdwarves. Even a 20x20 minecart track takes little more materials than small 2z tall tower (77 vs 68), and is tons easier to build.

From my fledgling tests and stories, I find it not too inaccurate to consider military a moving weapon trap, with deaths when it gets jammed (tired). Incredibly convenient, even when crossbows are hardly preferable weapon trap options.

However, they also have unique advantages: In addition to what Sanctume said (reasons enough to keep them), they additionally will distinguish trapavoid friend from trapavoid non-thief non-buildingdestroyer foe (invisible werebeasts on the hunt? Gremlin?), which you may want to do anyway with an attached killing mechanism if you're running a tavern. Other options to do so would probably be an animal on a pressure plate, but 100 steps is a small eternity in combat and certainly mandates less compact design to catch them into a trap.

Additionally, most elite enemy artillery can be stumped just like your ammo was, by riding minecart across their field of view (the bolts fired from that cart, should it be inactive dwarf with crossbow in it, will hit the target much easier however).

[levraininjaneer]

Wait wait wait...

You're saying that a marksdwarf riding a minecart will shoot at enemies?

This is... amazing.

I find it quite appropriate that in most fantasy games, dwarves lack cavalry. But if dwarves were to have cavalry (or better still: cavalry archers), crossbow men in minecarts sounds like the epitome of dwarfiness.

[eerr]

Hi!

I've been running a fort for about 15 dwarf years now and some years I get 2 or 3 capped goblin sieges (about 120 invaders alltogether).

I set up a gauntlet that the invaders need to walk through while being barraged from two sides by 20 or so legendary marksdwarves who are stationed behind some fortifications. I find that marksdwarves fail to hit the fastest moving trolls at all and on slower targets that they can hit and incapacitate, they need to land 40 to 100 bolts on a target to kill it. And I'm talking iron bolts vs unarmored trolls here, or poorly armored goblins. Beak dogs seem to die more easily.

5 of my elite melee dwarves can kill off the entire siege faster than 20 elite marksdwarves take to take out 5 invaders.

Anyone else finding their ranged corps a bit lacklustre lately?

Although I'm guessing that if an enemy takes 5 iron bolts, he'll probably die from injuries to organs etc within a few days...

The marksdwarf system is glitchy. But I find it far more likely you used cave-adapted marksdwarves to shoot outdoor seigers. Or maybe Toady fixed the glitch where mobs stand still to get shot at?


You know what I really think it is? Seigers stumble to maintain formations in tighter areas. But if you have a nice well lit five wide path then they might just waltz right in. Or maybe the goblin scout found good information?

[eerr]

Can you shoot me a save? I'd like to see your setup.

[Fleeting Frames]

Can't find the quote now, but Toady tested that dwarf axemen riding flying minecarts will even take a swing at passing enemies on cliff ledges*.

Yes. Dwarves on flying cavalry. Bonus points if you make the minecarts rainbow-colored (green could be difficult with no green wood or metal.) while also hunting unicorns.

* (and then dodge the counterattack out of the cart)

[freeze]

I'm all about the "every dwarf is infantry blah blargh 1 month training 2 months off" but I do put my admins and medical staff and scholars and such into the militia commander's squad, where they get helms mail shirts bucklers and crossbows. They keep the keas under control (pretty sure keas are a good way to train marksdwarves) and are generally all over the fort in the course of their normal duties, so it works great for me. Try setting a regular barracks (not range) on the surface for your marksdwarves. They'll do individual training plus pick off curious beasts and snatchers etc.

[ORCACommander]

back in my 34.11 days i had the opposite opinion. just 20 marksdwarves managed to maul everything that tried to breach the gates

[Iamblichos]

Fully armoured swarms from tomorrow's release may call for a rethink in tactics though.

Very little can withstand a minecart shotgun full of lead ingots.

[Melting Sky]

back in my 34.11 days i had the opposite opinion. just 20 marksdwarves managed to maul everything that tried to breach the gates

Range weapons have received one hell of a nerf since those days. Now that siegers will arrive in proper armor we will get to see just how serious that nerf really is. Most people didn't realize the extent of this nerf simply because they were firing on unarmored opponents. We will have to see if the armor nerf has improved this any, and it likely has, but people have never had fully armored foes to deal with before so I think they will be in for a shock.