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Total ban

3 (5%)

Strict laws, harsh penalties, strict regulation and record-keeping with check-ups every so often

23 (38.3%)

Something in between

9 (15%)

As it stands now

6 (10%)

Total freedom

17 (28.3%)

Abstain

2 (3.3%)

Total Members Voted: 59

[Orange Wizard]

edit: oh right Mexico too. Proportionally they have a much, much worse gun problem than US ever did. 

Mexico has fewer gun-related deaths than the US counting suicides

Very strict gun control is a theme in totalitarian nations

Totalitarian nations have totalitarian laws, who'd have thunk it

[Sheb]

Posting to watch the flaming.

[Antioch]

I find it funny that we (almost) never have debates about gun control here in the EU, where they are strictly regulated.

[Erkki]

edit: oh right Mexico too. Proportionally they have a much, much worse gun problem than US ever did. 

Mexico has fewer gun-related deaths than the US counting suicides

Very strict gun control is a theme in totalitarian nations

Totalitarian nations have totalitarian laws, who'd have thunk it

Your source has dated data and you missed the point: Armed organized crime runs rampart in Mexico. Mexico has almost double the firearm homicide rate despite having 1/7 of the guns per capita. Their gun control is ineffective.

Posting to watch the flaming.

I guess the subject is such that many have very strong opinions on it.

I find it funny that we (almost) never have debates about gun control here in the EU, where they are strictly regulated.

There isnt a debate because media quite often just puts the blame on guns or gun availability. You just get to read half of the story every time. EU's new firearm directive is being worked on as we speak. Among other things, the commission wants to ban firearms depending on how they look(black = banned), ban deactivated ones, make all licenses temporary for 5 years, serial number every individual produced cartridge(lol) and register all magazines and ban high capacity ones(as if they werent easy to manufacture). They say it'll make it more difficult for terrorists and organized crime...

[Sheb]

I guess there also isn't such a debate because we simply don't have that many gun owners, and those that do don't have nice lobby like the NRA.

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

edit: oh right Mexico too. Proportionally they have a much, much worse gun problem than US ever did. 

Mexico has fewer gun-related deaths than the US counting suicides

Very strict gun control is a theme in totalitarian nations

Totalitarian nations have totalitarian laws, who'd have thunk it

Your source has dated data and you missed the point: Armed organized crime runs rampart in Mexico. Mexico has almost double the firearm homicide rate despite having 1/7 of the guns per capita. Their gun control is ineffective.

Posting to watch the flaming.

I guess the subject is such that many have very strong opinions on it.

I find it funny that we (almost) never have debates about gun control here in the EU, where they are strictly regulated.

There isnt a debate because media quite often just puts the blame on guns or gun availability. You just get to read half of the story every time. EU's new firearm directive is being worked on as we speak. Among other things, the commission wants to ban firearms depending on how they look(black = banned), ban deactivated ones, make all licenses temporary for 5 years, serial number every individual produced cartridge(lol) and register all magazines and ban high capacity ones(as if they werent easy to manufacture). They say it'll make it more difficult for terrorists and organized crime...

Are they that afraid of a right-wing rebellion?

[Erkki]

Theres people who think EU is about to turn totalitarian yes, but I think they're just ignorant idiots in collection of political points("we have to do something!!!"), hoping to get more votes. Possibly many are corrupt, too. Ford, Katainen and Juncker at least, and the last is a drunk to boot.

[Orange Wizard]

Your source has dated data

Dated data on Wikipedia is still data; even if the numbers have shifted since 2008/2012/whatever, it's more evidence than you gave

you missed the point

Proportionally they have a much, much worse gun problem than US ever did. 

TIL "gun problem" means "firearm homicide rate"

Also if your only counter is "we're better than Mexico" then you don't really have much going for you

I guess the subject is such that many have very strong opinions on it.

I have strong opinions about people who have strong opinions that are wrong

There isnt a debate because media quite often just puts the blame on guns or gun availability. You just get to read half of the story every time.

Firearm availability is the problem; when people are able to get their hands on guns without the skills or mental stability to use them safely, people get shot

EU's new firearm directive is being worked on as we speak.

EU has a legislation fetish and you shouldn't take it seriously

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

All Wikipedia pages come with a talk page, where the editors can discuss the contents of the page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[EDIT: neutrality]

[Erkki]

TIL "gun problem" means "firearm homicide rate"

Mexico's guns still kill more than USA's, in a country where gun ownership is relatively speaking very restricted. You're free to use Mexico for both anti-gun and pro-gun examples.

I guess the subject is such that many have very strong opinions on it.

I have strong opinions about people who have strong opinions that are wrong

Now you're just hostile for the sake of it.

There isnt a debate because media quite often just puts the blame on guns or gun availability. You just get to read half of the story every time.

Firearm availability is the problem; when people are able to get their hands on guns without the skills or mental stability to use them safely, people get shot

In EU. In EU. In EU, not US or Mexico. Please. A police officer was shot and killed, the first one to die in 9 years, a few clicks from where I live just a few days ago. The shooter was a known village lunatic who had had all his guns taken away from him long ago. Didnt stop this 67-year old man from getting a former Soviet/Warsaw Pact assault rifle and thousands of cartridges for it. No legislation would have helped. This is of course an individual example again, but the Paris terrorists and all the ones caught before they got to strike anywhere have also acquired weapons from similar sources. Taking away legal rifles doesnt help when theres likely millions black market of rifles and other full auto weapons in Schengen area of free movement which is most of Europe and more leak across the borders from East.

EU has a legislation fetish and you shouldn't take it seriously

Unlike the old directive, this new directive will be enforced in all EU member countries. This developement needs to be taken very seriously even if it now looks like the most lunatic propotitions will not make it through the euro parliament. If the current proposals are accepted then people will be confiscated of their property, tens of thousands likely lose their jobs, hundreds of thousands their hobbies(where none get hurt) and it'll only get easier for mafia and terrorists. They're making their everything to remove weapon type that when legally owned isnt used in crime, homicides or even suicides. EU is strictening its firearm directive because of terrorism and crime. Its not about accidents or suicides and legally owned semi auto rifles arent used in either nor in crime.

[Insanegame27]

The thing is, though, I haven't heard of a massacre which was foiled because of people owning a gun. Would the guy who killed 50 and injured 53 in the nightclub have hurt anywhere near as many people if the heaviest thing he could get his hands on was a boltac? How many of those 103 owned guns? How many of those guns helped?

[Orange Wizard]

Mexico's guns still kill more than USA's, in a country where gun ownership is relatively speaking very restricted. You're free to use Mexico for both anti-gun and pro-gun examples.

How on earth is Mexico an argument for more lax gun control?

Now you're just hostile for the sake of it.

Please don't assume I'm hostile

In EU. In EU. In EU, not US or Mexico. Please.

Firearm death rates are very low in the EU by all accounts, not really a gun problem there, looks like control is successful

A police officer was shot and killed, the first one to die in 9 years, a few clicks from where I live just a few days ago.

Sounds like it's pretty rare for police officers to be shot and killed in EU. In EU. In EU, not US or Mexico. Please.

Taking away legal rifles doesnt help when theres likely millions black market of rifles and other full auto weapons in Schengen area of free movement which is most of Europe and more leak across the borders from East.

Gun control isn't just about legislation, it's about enforcement. Mexico, Brazil, Latin America in general has gun control laws but fuckall enforcement.

EU is strictening its firearm directive because of terrorism and crime.

How is this a bad thing? The current laws are pretty dumb, sure, but you said yourself it's unlikely to pass.

legally owned semi auto rifles arent used in either nor in crime.

Sources please

The thing is, though, I haven't heard of a massacre which was foiled because of people owning a gun. Would the guy who killed 50 and injured 53 in the nightclub have hurt anywhere near as many people if the heaviest thing he could get his hands on was a boltac? How many of those 103 owned guns? How many of those guns helped?

There was that one lady who shot a fleeing thief to death with their concealed revolver

Stopping crime the American way

[Insanegame27]

Its not about accidents or suicides and legally owned semi auto rifles arent used in either nor in crime.

The guy who shot the nightclub to shit legally bought his semi-auto rifle. Which I find bullshit. You don't need to kill someone to defend yourself. A taser does just as good of a job.

[Edmus]

Stopping crime the American way

*Emerges from flame proof bunker*
I think this is more American. Maybe even the most American.
*Returns to bunker*

[sluissa]

The thing is, though, I haven't heard of a massacre which was foiled because of people owning a gun. Would the guy who killed 50 and injured 53 in the nightclub have hurt anywhere near as many people if the heaviest thing he could get his hands on was a boltac? How many of those 103 owned guns? How many of those guns helped?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/

Here you go. Quick google search was all it took.