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[Putnam]

how about, like, no rape

dramatic stories can be written without rape, the risk/reward ratio is so bad for this in particular

[Random_Dragon]

Granted, violence porn is already the only option in reach. Again, the guy who "won" the "world's worst player" award. :V

[MoonyTheHuman]

Inb4 lock

[Random_Dragon]

It is inevitable.

[SixOfSpades]

how about, like, no rape

thank u fr ur contrbution 


I don't believe anyone here is actually advocating rape (and I'm not going to read the comments & possibly find out I'm wrong), so there's no point in arguing against it--you're preaching to the choir. But I (and at least a few others) do think that the addition of simple sex would be a benefit to the game--it certainly makes a lot more sense than impregnation via spouses bumping into each other in the dining hall, or especially via spores. The question is, would its implementation be enough of a benefit to justify the difficulty of ensuring that it cannot be abused?

As I stated 4 posts ago, a reasonable implementation seems perfectly doable: In Fortress mode, treat sex with the same level of detail as eating. Even the most prurient of players will never get anything more descriptive than "He enjoyed sexy times with the wife lately." In Adventure mode, make sex depend upon the sexual arousal of both subjects, and make arousal only achievable through conversation, not combat. True, some modders will just script themselves a rape scene in every village . . . so if that can't be prevented, maybe implementing Adventure-mode sex would have to be abandoned.

[Random_Dragon]

As usual, Orbok Meatgod is pleased with this derp.

[Shonai_Dweller]

how about, like, no rape

thank u fr ur contrbution 


I don't believe anyone here is actually advocating rape (and I'm not going to read the comments & possibly find out I'm wrong), so there's no point in arguing against it--you're preaching to the choir. But I (and at least a few others) do think that the addition of simple sex would be a benefit to the game--it certainly makes a lot more sense than impregnation via spouses bumping into each other in the dining hall, or especially via spores. The question is, would its implementation be enough of a benefit to justify the difficulty of ensuring that it cannot be abused?

As I stated 4 posts ago, a reasonable implementation seems perfectly doable: In Fortress mode, treat sex with the same level of detail as eating. Even the most prurient of players will never get anything more descriptive than "He enjoyed sexy times with the wife lately." In Adventure mode, make sex depend upon the sexual arousal of both subjects, and make arousal only achievable through conversation, not combat. True, some modders will just script themselves a rape scene in every village . . . so if that can't be prevented, maybe implementing Adventure-mode sex would have to be abandoned.

To be honest, you should read the thread. There are people who appear to be absolutely convinced that if sex is introduced, rape is required (mainly through delusions that DF must simulate everything in the entire world and therefore it would be somehow wrong to have one and not the other).

That requires an argument against. It's not necessary, a lot of fantasy fiction ignores it and still manages grand stories.

[JesterHell696]

Killing people is not sexy, rape can be sexy; hence the distinction actually makes sense.  Sexual imagery has a greater grip on the mind and desires of the watcher/reader than violent imagery does, hence you should be very careful with what you are depicting,

The japanese fetish called Guro disagrees, its a bit like necrophilia in that you might want to think no way but in fact yes way some people do think its sexy.

WARNING DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE:Encyclopedia Dramatica's page on the subject, with examples:WARNING DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE

Rape (i personally despise using that word) isn't really appropriate whatever the setting, its especially insulting, offensive and insensitive to the player audience too. Even on extreme hostility settings (as detailed recently in the dev logs detailing sliders for a brutal and grotesquely unfair world settings) it would be more appropriate for characters to not have the option open to do such a thing (Or handle it VERY specifically to make it vague, much like night troll spouses, nobody really knows what happens there), we must understand it exists in this real-life world with a air of maturity, but it probably wont have a place in the world of DF as hard as you may try in the same way.

I disagree with this so much, I hate the way day people take the opinion that being maturer is to not depict offensive material at all, it's PC gone over board.

Two of my cousins where subject to child molestation and one has repeatedly attempted suicide and the other has become "easy" because of low self worth, this is part of the reason why I want it in along with all the psychological baggage that comes with it because being mature is about addressing these issues and showing it and the damage it does to people lives and DF's detailed psychology system makes it the best candidate to showing the psychological damage rape does and DF's justice system can be used as a counter by making it illegal in civ entity's with a hammering to the geldables as punishment, which is something my both cousins father's wanted to do to the molester personally.

how about, like, no rape

dramatic stories can be written without rape, the risk/reward ratio is so bad for this in particular

How about no violence as well then, after all stories can be written with out that as well, oh wait that already planned as an option so it would be easy to make rape the other extreme... just give player a warning akin to embarking on aquifers "This setting will enable extreme content like non-consensual sexual activity are you sure you want to generate world? (Y) (N)" seems like a good way to handle it.

I don't believe anyone here is actually advocating rape (and I'm not going to read the comments & possibly find out I'm wrong), so there's no point in arguing against it--you're preaching to the choir. But I (and at least a few others) do think that the addition of simple sex would be a benefit to the game--it certainly makes a lot more sense than impregnation via spouses bumping into each other in the dining hall, or especially via spores. The question is, would its implementation be enough of a benefit to justify the difficulty of ensuring that it cannot be abused?

I am advocating it, partially because I love playing devil's advocate and partially because DF is the only game that I think can handle the psychological fallout of rape in a semi-realistic way and given that we now know there will be a setting to turn off violence then there is no good reason imho for the other extreme to not include horrific things like rape along with all the psychological fallout that it entails.

As I stated 4 posts ago, a reasonable implementation seems perfectly doable: In Fortress mode, treat sex with the same level of detail as eating. Even the most prurient of players will never get anything more descriptive than "He enjoyed sexy times with the wife lately." In Adventure mode, make sex depend upon the sexual arousal of both subjects, and make arousal only achievable through conversation, not combat.

I think rape should be treated the same as you suggest normal sex just with a victim who has submitted rather then a willing partner, then use DF's awesome psychological system to depict the fallout and suffering of the victim, have them crying and shivering on the ground saying "pl. please no more." and the next time they see the player character have them run away or start crying or any number of other PTSD type syndromes and basically try and invoke empathy from the player whom does engage in rape.

True, some modders will just script themselves a rape scene in every village . . . so if that can't be prevented, maybe implementing Adventure-mode sex would have to be abandoned.

No, just no, I've always hated this type of reasoning.

As usual, Orbok Meatgod is pleased with this derp.

Part of the reason I want Toady too handle the subject officially is because as it stands Meatgod is the only depiction of rape DF has and its very easy for anyone to mod in and given that its very likely that we will get some level of sexual activity based on old DF talks and Dev goals it will only become easier to mod but if rape is not handled in any official capacity then there is never any actually recognition of the horror that is rape so I think its better to add it make it legal and simulate the trauma but not the act itself then maybe the game can invoke the same response Meatgod creator had after he'd finish where he relied what he'd done went WTF and deleted the save.

To be honest, you should read the thread. There are people who appear to be absolutely convinced that if sex is introduced, rape is required (mainly through delusions that DF must simulate everything in the entire world and therefore it would be somehow wrong to have one and not the other).

That requires an argument against. It's not necessary, a lot of fantasy fiction ignores it and still manages grand stories.

I don't think its required but I do think its a natural extension of including both sex and a violence/horror setting and no its not necessary for grand stories but many stories have rape as plot points and that doe not lessen the story and it can add to a story of revenge quite well, help show the depths of depravity of a villain and show just how evil an evil entity (civ) is.

Also I think a type of rape is may already to be possible with just the addition consensual sex, specifically taking advantage of a drunk person as I'm pretty sure alcohol already effects a creatures mental attributes and make them more likely to engage in behavior they would not otherwise so the player could just try and pick up drunks who's judgement is impaired which, at least where I live it is treated as rape so might as well have rape as a maximum violence/horror setting imho as at least then he could program in the ability for creature's and entity's to recognize that act as a immoral one and act accordingly.







Now all that has been said I don't think rape will ever be included mostly because I doubt the dev want to do the necessary research into the psychological fallout of it more then an actual opposition to it inclusion overall.

[Putnam]

Killing people is not sexy, rape can be sexy; hence the distinction actually makes sense.  Sexual imagery has a greater grip on the mind and desires of the watcher/reader than violent imagery does, hence you should be very careful with what you are depicting,

The japanese fetish called Guro disagrees, its a bit like necrophilia in that you might want to think no way but in fact yes way some people do think its sexy.

WARNING DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE:Encyclopedia Dramatica's page on the subject, with examples:WARNING DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE

Rape (i personally despise using that word) isn't really appropriate whatever the setting, its especially insulting, offensive and insensitive to the player audience too. Even on extreme hostility settings (as detailed recently in the dev logs detailing sliders for a brutal and grotesquely unfair world settings) it would be more appropriate for characters to not have the option open to do such a thing (Or handle it VERY specifically to make it vague, much like night troll spouses, nobody really knows what happens there), we must understand it exists in this real-life world with a air of maturity, but it probably wont have a place in the world of DF as hard as you may try in the same way.

I disagree with this so much, I hate the way day people take the opinion that being maturer is to not depict offensive material at all, it's PC gone over board.

Two of my cousins where subject to child molestation and one has repeatedly attempted suicide and the other has become "easy" because of low self worth, this is part of the reason why I want it in along with all the psychological baggage that comes with it because being mature is about addressing these issues and showing it and the damage it does to people lives and DF's detailed psychology system makes it the best candidate to showing the psychological damage rape does and DF's justice system can be used as a counter by making it illegal in civ entity's with a hammering to the geldables as punishment, which is something my both cousins father's wanted to do to the molester personally.

The problem is that, due to its hugely procedural nature, it's nigh impossible for DF to do anything maturely or immaturely. That's for the fanbase to do, and they've proven themselves incapable of dealing with this particular issue in a reasonable manner.

[FantasticDorf]

Rape (i personally despise using that word) isn't really appropriate whatever the setting, its especially insulting, offensive and insensitive to the player audience too. Even on extreme hostility settings (as detailed recently in the dev logs detailing sliders for a brutal and grotesquely unfair world settings) it would be more appropriate for characters to not have the option open to do such a thing (Or handle it VERY specifically to make it vague, much like night troll spouses, nobody really knows what happens there), we must understand it exists in this real-life world with a air of maturity, but it probably wont have a place in the world of DF as hard as you may try in the same way.

I disagree with this so much, I hate the way day people take the opinion that being maturer is to not depict offensive material at all, it's PC gone over board.

Two of my cousins where subject to child molestation and one has repeatedly attempted suicide and the other has become "easy" because of low self worth, this is part of the reason why I want it in along with all the psychological baggage that comes with it because being mature is about addressing these issues and showing it and the damage it does to people lives and DF's detailed psychology system makes it the best candidate to showing the psychological damage rape does and DF's justice system can be used as a counter by making it illegal in civ entity's with a hammering to the geldables as punishment, which is something my both cousins father's wanted to do to the molester personally.

I see what you're saying, but i wholly disagree.

There are places and tools for survivors of rape in the real life world, as i also mentioned in my post it is very offensive towards the player act these actions out on others and be a subject of such horrific abuse. Hijacking the game to demonstrate the 'punishment' via a moral precedent angle would be completely inappropriate because the game can be modified and interpreted so loosely. One slip of editing and it is undone.

It does not empower or even console others to watch a fictitious rapist's life be ended on the block , nor does it give them particular power in becoming a abuser themselves in adventure mode. (contrary it suggestibly may fuel risk of committing abuse themselves or garner particularly negative thoughts because of being unable to confront or challenge this traumatic event properly) I'm sorry for your family's personal misfortune or whatever concepts of justice their father's or you would like to pursue, but to blame it on political correctness is wrong, its a issue that people can't understand that some mature themes resolutions are explicitly linked to a need for real world help & counseling. Desensitizing to those themes (such as desensitizing to themes in pornography to draw up a comparison) by inserting it into pop culture won't help anybody.

Such intense issues deserve their own medium for exploring the issue in a controlled manner, but to have it on the side with the main dish of DF would ruin the palette. It'd always be the elephant in the room.

[Orange Wizard]

The problem is that, due to its hugely procedural nature, it's nigh impossible for DF to do anything maturely or immaturely. That's for the fanbase to do, and they've proven themselves incapable of dealing with this particular issue in a reasonable manner.

Probably also not good to be know as "that game that makes up rape stories" for the old public image huh

its a issue that people can't understand that some mature themes resolutions are explicitly linked to a need for real world help & counseling. Desensitizing to those themes (such as desensitizing to themes in pornography to draw up a comparison) by inserting it into pop culture won't help anybody.

IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE THEREFORE IT SHOULD BE REMOVED

[Putnam]

okay but like this is something people legitimately have PTSD over, it's not like something overly sensitive whatevers are freaking out over god DAMN

[Orange Wizard]

Content warnings

[Putnam]

also it's not in in the first place so obviously "removing" it isn't what we're talking about

[Orange Wizard]

Doesn't change that "it might make some people upset ergo it should not be included" is a terrible argument