Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[vjmdhzgr]

Also, murderers are already in the game, but dwarven personality and ethics makes them rare.  If you mod dwarves to be more like goblins (higher cruelty, less empathy, less of a punishment for murder), you'll see a lot more murders.

Wait really? Like, in fortress mode? Just randomly? What do you mean?

[Grim Portent]

Also, murderers are already in the game, but dwarven personality and ethics makes them rare.  If you mod dwarves to be more like goblins (higher cruelty, less empathy, less of a punishment for murder), you'll see a lot more murders.

Wait really? Like, in fortress mode? Just randomly? What do you mean?

Every race has a range of personality traits which they fall in commonly. It's a 0-100 distribution scale as I recall in the RAWs, with 0 being not at all and 100 being always, with a scaling deviation range, which I think defaults to 20 for most traits. Might be misremembering how it works though.

Dwarven society is naturally inclined to be loyal, hard working, value law and order and generally not be in favour of casual murder. Goblin society on the other hand is designed to encourage random acts of violence with empathy being rare, laws nonexistant, sadism common.

If you check the Legends you'll find a lot of goblins murder each other during worldgen. If you slanted the dwarves default mentality closer to the goblins on average there'd be a lot more random violence in the fort and it would probably be more severe, leading to strings of murders by fort members.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Actually, no.

This "random murdering people" thing is only coded in for worldgen and NPC settlements, so while your dwarven civilization will certainly have many murders, your own fortress will not.

I know because I've played a lightly-modded goblin civ that didn't have any of its ethics changed. No murders.

However, tantrumming dwarves and fell dwarves and berserk dwarves will certainly murder other dwarves. So we already have a less-sneaky version of serial killers. But the problem with serial killers is this:

Dwarves are designed to work together, and their whole culture is both dependent on this common effort, and focused on keeping it that way by any means necessary. That's what the justice arm of the leadership/militia is for.

So while a dwarf could indeed kill another dwarf, that shows so much mental instability that they'd be unlikely to be able to act as a normal part of society.

Now a vampire on the other hand has not been formed through stress, so their minds are warped but not broken. They can act like normal, chug beer with Likost, and then sneak down and kill his wife. And see no problem with it, and go back to chiseling a slab.

[vjmdhzgr]

Also, murderers are already in the game, but dwarven personality and ethics makes them rare.  If you mod dwarves to be more like goblins (higher cruelty, less empathy, less of a punishment for murder), you'll see a lot more murders.

Wait really? Like, in fortress mode? Just randomly? What do you mean?

Every race has a range of personality traits which they fall in commonly. It's a 0-100 distribution scale as I recall in the RAWs, with 0 being not at all and 100 being always, with a scaling deviation range, which I think defaults to 20 for most traits. Might be misremembering how it works though.

Dwarven society is naturally inclined to be loyal, hard working, value law and order and generally not be in favour of casual murder. Goblin society on the other hand is designed to encourage random acts of violence with empathy being rare, laws nonexistant, sadism common.

If you check the Legends you'll find a lot of goblins murder each other during worldgen. If you slanted the dwarves default mentality closer to the goblins on average there'd be a lot more random violence in the fort and it would probably be more severe, leading to strings of murders by fort members.

That's not how personality traits work at all. They're all 0 to 100 with 50 as the average by default. It can be changed to be between 50 and 100 with an average of 75, or even between 25 and 50 with an average of 25. There's no, not at all or always thing though. You say it as if there's a chance of having a trait entirely or not at all, when it's just sliding how much of a trait they have. Like altruism, which goblins don't have much of.
Anyway, it makes more sense that it's just related to world generation, I've seen demons just murder goblins with no explanation.

[Untrustedlife]

I love vampires, you can become one in adventure mode.

[Grim Portent]

That's not how personality traits work at all. They're all 0 to 100 with 50 as the average by default. It can be changed to be between 50 and 100 with an average of 75, or even between 25 and 50 with an average of 25. There's no, not at all or always thing though. You say it as if there's a chance of having a trait entirely or not at all, when it's just sliding how much of a trait they have. Like altruism, which goblins don't have much of.
Anyway, it makes more sense that it's just related to world generation, I've seen demons just murder goblins with no explanation.

Knew I was remembering it wrong. Been way too long since I did any modding, starting to forget stuff. 

Actually, no.

This "random murdering people" thing is only coded in for worldgen and NPC settlements, so while your dwarven civilization will certainly have many murders, your own fortress will not.

I know because I've played a lightly-modded goblin civ that didn't have any of its ethics changed. No murders.

However, tantrumming dwarves and fell dwarves and berserk dwarves will certainly murder other dwarves. So we already have a less-sneaky version of serial killers. But the problem with serial killers is this:

Dwarves are designed to work together, and their whole culture is both dependent on this common effort, and focused on keeping it that way by any means necessary. That's what the justice arm of the leadership/militia is for.

So while a dwarf could indeed kill another dwarf, that shows so much mental instability that they'd be unlikely to be able to act as a normal part of society.

Now a vampire on the other hand has not been formed through stress, so their minds are warped but not broken. They can act like normal, chug beer with Likost, and then sneak down and kill his wife. And see no problem with it, and go back to chiseling a slab.

Didn't the change in personality traits make fights more common? Proper murders definitely aren't part of fortresses yet, but I would think that the goblins would be more inclined to tavern brawls and tantrums, with all the accidental deaths that entails.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Note "accidental." Any dwarf that intentionally kills another is insane and should be killed, while a drunk accident is normal and fine, just lock him up for a few years. (Or not, I don't actually think drunk accidents carry any kind of repercussions save the "dead dwarf" part.)

[GoblinCookie]

Are not berserk dwarves basically serial killers already?

[LMeire]

Are not berserk dwarves basically serial killers already?

No, not really. Serial killers are generally very methodical and tend to only target one kind of person who is then killed and disposed of a a ritualistic manner- as opposed to indiscriminately killing anything that gets close. That's why they're called "serial" killers while lunatics that shoot up a single theater or mall are not.

[Adam Mantine]

I don´t know who came up with the idea of vampire dwarfs, but for my it really sucks!
I mean really? VAMPIRE DWARVES? sorry but I think its a dumb concept.

If the idea was to add an intriguing, suspenseful feature maybe it could be better if it was a serial killer dwarf

But maybe there´s a way to deactivate vampires, if that´s the case please tell me how to do it.

They had vampire dwarves in Ravenloft. Plus it kind of makes sense; realistically, avoiding the sun would be a huge tell for humans, but not for dwarves.

I do like the idea of characters snapping and becoming serial killers. maybe as a result of wither personality and/or stress.

I think you can turn off vampires in world gen by setting the paramater that controls the number of kinds of vampire to zero

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I do like the idea of characters snapping and becoming serial killers. maybe as a result of wither personality and/or stress.

You're new here, so I'm not sure if you know that berserk dwarves are a thing. The ability to blend in with society and then kill people discreetly makes a serial killer, and dwarves just aren't built for that. They also have anti-vampire measures (whenever they're alone, they have secure locks for their bedrooms) which would deter serial killers from just sneaking and slashing. There's also the large militia and fortress guard, so if mysterious deaths happened, they would be noted by the bookkeeper or manager, and a dwarfhunt would quickly be concluded.

[NW_Kohaku]

This discussion seems to be losing sight of the scope of the thread.

The original post was just complaining that he personally didn't like the idea that dwarves could be vampires. As already noted, it seems silly that Toady would outright remove a feature he's spent so much time working on. The notion of "serial killers" was just a way of relabeling the vampires already in the game to better fit his tastes.  Arguing over berserk dwarves or personality traits goes outside the scope of the thread, here.

While murders aren't in Fortress Mode yet, the fact that they are in Worldgen implies that Toady will want them to be in Fortress Mode eventually, since all modes are eventually meant to have some sort of parity.  There isn't much reason to argue for something we're already likely to get. 

If you want to have a suggestion on how to make murders more viable as a mystery element in the fortress, you're probably better off making a whole new suggestion, since it seems to be outside the scope of this thread.