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[Happy Demon]

[Axt, God of Enchanted Weapons]

"What makes you think I'm projecting insecurity?"

"That you think their fight to not lose would make the fight of truth vs lie never happen. That they both will so fiercely not want to look weak that they don't need to be fighting for truth.
And there is also the first time, with the Champions. Where you think mortals would think less of us for creating humans rather than dogs.
Your insecurity is affecting your perception."

[hector13]

"One can never be too careful."

"Oh, but you can! Have you never heard? Far better to make the wrong move, than none at all."

"Being careful does not mean taking no action. It means taking more time to consider an action and its repercussions. The wrong action may be more detrimental than no action, so it isn't always a bad thing not to act."

[Axt, God of Enchanted Weapons]

"What makes you think I'm projecting insecurity?"

"That you think their fight to not lose would make the fight of truth vs lie never happen. That they both will so fiercely not want to look weak that they don't need to be fighting for truth.
And there is also the first time, with the Champions. Where you think mortals would think less of us for creating humans rather than dogs.
Your insecurity is affecting your perception."

"It is not insecure of me to think combat is less likely to find the truth than investigation. I think that's more common sense, frankly. We needn't return to the issue of champions; I said all I wanted to at the time."

[Happy Demon]

[Axt, God of Enchanted Weapons]

"It is not insecure of me to think combat is less likely to find the truth than investigation. I think that's more common sense, frankly. We needn't return to the issue of champions; I said all I wanted to at the time."

"False, an investigation by itself is useless. It is used to find evidence, but Mischief chooses not to present any evidence.
In absence of evidence, trial by combat is the best way. And much better than accusations and rhetorical trickery."

[hector13]

[Axt, God of Enchanted Weapons]

"It is not insecure of me to think combat is less likely to find the truth than investigation. I think that's more common sense, frankly. We needn't return to the issue of champions; I said all I wanted to at the time."

"False, an investigation by itself is useless. It is used to find evidence, but Mischief chooses not to present any evidence.
In absence of evidence, trial by combat is the best way. And much better than accusations and rhetorical trickery."

"How better to find the truth than via evidence? The truth does not grant a being - divine or otherwise - any extra combat ability. Motivation, perhaps, but it won't suddenly make you a manifestation of martial ability able to shed light on lies everywhere.

Mischief says they have evidence, but I can't imagine any of us will allow them to prosecute, at least publicly, Munroe for their accused crimes without presenting it."

[Rolepgeek]

"One can never be too careful."

"Oh, but you can! Have you never heard? Far better to make the wrong move, than none at all."

"Being careful does not mean taking no action. It means taking more time to consider an action and its repercussions. The wrong action may be more detrimental than no action, so it isn't always a bad thing not to act."

"Deliberation works for both sides of a debate. Fire cannot spread through hesitation, and lightning does not hum and haw over where it will strike. Both swiftly survey their choices, and then set out."

[hector13]

"One can never be too careful."

"Oh, but you can! Have you never heard? Far better to make the wrong move, than none at all."

"Being careful does not mean taking no action. It means taking more time to consider an action and its repercussions. The wrong action may be more detrimental than no action, so it isn't always a bad thing not to act."

"Deliberation works for both sides of a debate. Fire cannot spread through hesitation, and lightning does not hum and haw over where it will strike. Both swiftly survey their choices, and then set out."

"Neither of these things have agency, they both follow the path of least resistance. They make no choice in what they do or how they go about doing it."

((Now I'm going to make sapient lightning))

[Detoxicated]

"One can never be too careful."

"Oh, but you can! Have you never heard? Far better to make the wrong move, than none at all."

"Much truth lies in your words."

"One can never be too careful."

"Oh, but you can! Have you never heard? Far better to make the wrong move, than none at all."

"Being careful does not mean taking no action. It means taking more time to consider an action and its repercussions. The wrong action may be more detrimental than no action, so it isn't always a bad thing not to act."

"Deliberation works for both sides of a debate. Fire cannot spread through hesitation, and lightning does not hum and haw over where it will strike. Both swiftly survey their choices, and then set out."

"Neither of these things have agency, they both follow the path of least resistance. They make no choice in what they do or how they go about doing it."

((Now I'm going to make sapient lightning))

"Well, their efficiency comes from the swiftness, so he gets his point across. Taking no action is only helpful if you know why you are not doing anything. Contemplation leads to sloth, and away from discipline."

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

Propose: Axe Dungeon 1: Dungeons have the base cost of 0.25 Essence. And will use traits to augment their effect.

Propose: Axe Dungeon 2: It costs 25% of the invested Essence for a god to access the dungeon. Items in the dungeon counts as invested essence, so if there's God A's artifact which cost 3 Essence in a 12 Essence dungeon, the god can access the dungeon. Creatures count as Essence in this regard, and it only counts the added value of all the items belonging to a god. This will also allow up to 4 gods to participate in the creation, as investment in the dungeon counts as items in this regard as well.

Propose: Axe Dungeon 3: Idols of Power, enchanted by the gods, let the wielder call upon a limited amount of power from the god. The more powerful the item, and the more skilled the wielder, the more power can be drawn. But god can freely deny them power, so it cannot be used without the god's permission.
"I think this is a good baseline, allowing... wait."
Propose: Axe Dungeon 4: Gods cannot remove their items from a dungeon, or any others' items, only mortals can take items out of a dungeon.
"This will make it a realm for mortal adventurers, with limited interference from gods, but still make it so it's not a safe zone.
But before I can propose traits, I need the baseline approved."
Propose: Dungeon Trait Axe 1: Dungeons have 4 characteristics, Size, Residents, Environment, and Location. A dungeon has to have Size, making the base cost 0.25 Essence. Including the other characteristics adds 0.25 Essence for each.
Propose: Dungeon Trait Axe 2: Any trait applied on the characteristic, will only multiply the price of the characteristic, not the total price of the dungeon. So a dungeon with standard everything is 1 Essence, while a dungeon with a 2x trait on size and everything else standard is 1.25 Essence.

SUPPORT

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Size 1 [Size*1], roughly the volume of a two story house, so about 1 000 m3.
Size 2 [Size*2], 5 times more space, 5 000 m3.
Size 3 [Size*4], 5 times previous, 25 000 m3.
Size 4 [Size*8], 4 times, 100 000 m3.
Size 5 [Size*16], 5 times, 500 000 m3.
Size 6 [Size*32], 5 times, 2 500 000 m3.
Size 7 [Size*64], 5 times, 12 500 000 m3.
Size 8 [Size*128], 4 times, 50 000 000 m3.
Size 9 [Size*256], 5 times, 250 000 000 m3.
Size 10 [Size*512], 4 times, 1 000 000 000 m3 or 1 km3.

SUPPORT

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Propose Dungeon Trait: Residents: Residents 0 [Residents*0], this dungeon will not generate life, but may contain immigrants.
Residents 1 [Residents*1], dungeons will produce basic plant and animal life the size of lizards and snakes, but cannot sustain the animals on it's own, so gathering of outside food is necessary. Along with generating 0.1 Essence worth of creatures each year. Upon creation, a full year's worth of creatures will appear in the dungeon, after that, the growth is the slow pace it used to be.
Residents 2 [Residents*2], dungeons will produce basic plants and animals the size of bats and cats (or tiny venomous bugs), it still cannot sustain the animals on it's own. Along with generating 0.2 Essence worth of creatures each year. Same as before, a year's worth of creatures are generated when the dungeon is created.
Residents 3 [Residents*4], dungeon will produce plants with medicinal or poison properties, and animals can have poison and be snake size, or not and be dog size, it still cannot sustain it's animals on it's own. 0.3 Essence worth of creatures generated every year.
Residents 4 [Residents*8], dungeon will produce plants with medicinal or poison properties, and animals can be cat size poisonous, or wolf size, still dependent. 0.8 Essence worth of creatures.
Residents 5 [Residents*16], dungeon will produce strong plants capable of sustaining it's inhabitants, and animals can be big as bears. 2 Essence worth of creatures.
Residents 6 [Residents*32], dungeon creates weak elemental entities, animate plants with powerful medicinal or poison properties, the animals are magical in nature. 3 Essence worth of creatures.
Residents 7 [Residents*64], dungeon creates elemental entities, powerful living plants with magical properties, contain magical beasts of mammoth size. 5 Essence worth of creatures.
Residents 8 [Residents*128], dungeon creates eldritch entities, powerful living plants with powerful magical properties, contain forgotten beasts. 8 Essence worth of creatures.
Residents 9 [Residents*256], dungeon creates avatars of magic, plants capable of terraforming, contain great forgotten beasts. 15 Essence worth of creatures.
Residents 10 [Residents*512], dungeons creates divine beings, plants capable of spreading outside which contain nightmarish power, contain great mythical beasts. 25 Essence worth of creatures.
((The creatures are made with traits, while the plants and animals require no such description, they can be generic, but you can give them a description if you want to.))

Support


"Personally, I like your truth aproach, Axt. Afterall, Truth is a concept envisioned by the group, so the value of truth may change from observer to observer and group to group. Unless a systematic school of truth is formed and accepted by the likes of ours, Axts aproach to find truth is just as valid as any other."

[Fiery_Death]

Support:
Dungeon Trait Axe 1
Dungeon Trait Axe 2
Dungeon Trait: Size
Dungeon Trait: Residents

[crazyabe]

Support^

[Happy Demon]

[Axt, God of Enchanted Weapons]

"I think the problem was making it one trait."

Spoiler: Proposals (click to show/hide)

Propose Dungeon Trait: Constructed Environment:
Constructed Environment 1 [Environment*1], dungeon is made of weak materials, and can be hacked through with a simple pickaxe or axe.
Constructed Environment 2 [Environment*2], dungeon is made of rough materials, and can be hacked through with a solid pickaxe or axe.
Constructed Environment 3 [Environment*4], dungeon is made of solid materials, and can only be hacked through with an enchanted pickaxe or axe.
Constructed Environment 4 [Environment*8], dungeon is made of very strong materials, and cannot be dug through.
Constructed Environment 5 [Environment*16], dungeon is masterfully crafted, with smooth or engraved rock. It will intrigue and inspire those with an interest in architecture.
Constructed Environment 6 [Environment*32], dungeon is made of impossibly strong materials, capable of architecture impossible to mortals.

Propose Dungeon Trait: Cave Environment: Environment 0 [Environment*0], dungeon is made of weak nearby materials, mostly dirt and clay. It can be dug in by hand.
Cave Environment 1 [Environment*1], dungeon is a muddy cave, the walls will resist damage, but a simple pickaxe or shovel will let you dig through.
Cave Environment 2 [Environment*2], dungeon is a partially clay and stone cave, can even house a little cave stream without too much risk of cave in. A solid pickaxe will let you dig. But shovels can be used in certain clay areas.
Cave Environment 3 [Environment*4], dungeon is a rock cave, with solid walls, you need an enchanted pickaxe to dig.
Cave Environment 4 [Environment*8], dungeon is a rock cave with occasional parts that are crystal, which cannot be dug through, though you can chip off chunks of it.
Cave Environment 5 [Environment*16], dungeon is a crystal cave, it cannot be dug through.

Propose Dungeon Trait: Extraplanar Environment: (starts at *8.)
Extraplanar Environment 1 [Environment*8], dungeon is partially based in another plane, physics will occasionally not operate as it should.
Extraplanar Environment 2 [Environment*16], dungeon is only based in the material plane, ghosts may become corporeal, and parts can have none, or inverted gravity.
Extraplanar Environment 3 [Environment*32], dungeon has altered physics, like different gravity, or friction. It can also act as a conduit to another plane, and let the planar outsiders live where they shouldn't be able to.
Extraplanar Environment 4 [Environment*64], dungeon can be made of materials which cannot exist in the material plane (like crystallized suffering), and other material will act only vaguely in accordance to it's behavior in the material plane. This is a hazard, as without wards, the human (or any other living creature's) biology could simply cease to function.
Extraplanar Environment 5 [Environment*128], dungeon will act as if completely disconnected from the material plane. Only the laws of the dungeon matter here.

Propose Dungeon Trait: Elemental Environment: (starts at *4)
Elemental Environment 1 [Environment*4], dungeon has elemental properties, like hot steam, freezing water, shifting earth, or gusts of wind.
Elemental Environment 2 [Environment*8], dungeon contains molten rock, frozen walls, shifting stone, or forceful winds.
Elemental Environment 3 [Environment*16], dungeon is definitely enchanted. Rivers of fire are present, along with liquid cold, the dungeon has a will of it's own, or the winds are ever present.
Elemental Environment 4 [Environment*32], dungeon hums with elemental energy, the rivers of flame is semi-sentient, capable of grabbing intruders. The cold is a living being, the dungeon hold powerful earth powers, or the winds can act as physical platforms, if it wills it. This is a dangerous place for mortals, the air is boiling, it could freeze you in seconds, the dungeon may even just kill you in the blink of an eye, or the winds can tear you apart. Always bring a good ward.
Elemental Environment 5 [Environment*64], this dungeon is a source of elemental energy, capable of causing elemental effects in adjacent dungeons, and provide boosts to elemental powers there. The dungeon has a will of it's own, and will also make adjacent dungeons have parts that are sapient. Acting as a part-conscious of the main dungeon.

"There, separated. Now you can support the more grounded ones without automatically supporting the crazy ones."

[Detoxicated]

[Axt, God of Enchanted Weapons]

"I think the problem was making it one trait."

Spoiler: Proposals (click to show/hide)

Propose Dungeon Trait: Constructed Environment:
Constructed Environment 1 [Environment*1], dungeon is made of weak materials, and can be hacked through with a simple pickaxe or axe.
Constructed Environment 2 [Environment*2], dungeon is made of rough materials, and can be hacked through with a solid pickaxe or axe.
Constructed Environment 3 [Environment*4], dungeon is made of solid materials, and can only be hacked through with an enchanted pickaxe or axe.
Constructed Environment 4 [Environment*8], dungeon is made of very strong materials, and cannot be dug through.
Constructed Environment 5 [Environment*16], dungeon is masterfully crafted, with smooth or engraved rock. It will intrigue and inspire those with an interest in architecture.
Constructed Environment 6 [Environment*32], dungeon is made of impossibly strong materials, capable of architecture impossible to mortals.

Propose Dungeon Trait: Cave Environment: Environment 0 [Environment*0], dungeon is made of weak nearby materials, mostly dirt and clay. It can be dug in by hand.
Cave Environment 1 [Environment*1], dungeon is a muddy cave, the walls will resist damage, but a simple pickaxe or shovel will let you dig through.
Cave Environment 2 [Environment*2], dungeon is a partially clay and stone cave, can even house a little cave stream without too much risk of cave in. A solid pickaxe will let you dig. But shovels can be used in certain clay areas.
Cave Environment 3 [Environment*4], dungeon is a rock cave, with solid walls, you need an enchanted pickaxe to dig.
Cave Environment 4 [Environment*8], dungeon is a rock cave with occasional parts that are crystal, which cannot be dug through, though you can chip off chunks of it.
Cave Environment 5 [Environment*16], dungeon is a crystal cave, it cannot be dug through.

Propose Dungeon Trait: Extraplanar Environment: (starts at *8.)
Extraplanar Environment 1 [Environment*8], dungeon is partially based in another plane, physics will occasionally not operate as it should.
Extraplanar Environment 2 [Environment*16], dungeon is only based in the material plane, ghosts may become corporeal, and parts can have none, or inverted gravity.
Extraplanar Environment 3 [Environment*32], dungeon has altered physics, like different gravity, or friction. It can also act as a conduit to another plane, and let the planar outsiders live where they shouldn't be able to.
Extraplanar Environment 4 [Environment*64], dungeon can be made of materials which cannot exist in the material plane (like crystallized suffering), and other material will act only vaguely in accordance to it's behavior in the material plane. This is a hazard, as without wards, the human (or any other living creature's) biology could simply cease to function.
Extraplanar Environment 5 [Environment*128], dungeon will act as if completely disconnected from the material plane. Only the laws of the dungeon matter here.

Propose Dungeon Trait: Elemental Environment: (starts at *4)
Elemental Environment 1 [Environment*4], dungeon has elemental properties, like hot steam, freezing water, shifting earth, or gusts of wind.
Elemental Environment 2 [Environment*8], dungeon contains molten rock, frozen walls, shifting stone, or forceful winds.
Elemental Environment 3 [Environment*16], dungeon is definitely enchanted. Rivers of fire are present, along with liquid cold, the dungeon has a will of it's own, or the winds are ever present.
Elemental Environment 4 [Environment*32], dungeon hums with elemental energy, the rivers of flame is semi-sentient, capable of grabbing intruders. The cold is a living being, the dungeon hold powerful earth powers, or the winds can act as physical platforms, if it wills it. This is a dangerous place for mortals, the air is boiling, it could freeze you in seconds, the dungeon may even just kill you in the blink of an eye, or the winds can tear you apart. Always bring a good ward.
Elemental Environment 5 [Environment*64], this dungeon is a source of elemental energy, capable of causing elemental effects in adjacent dungeons, and provide boosts to elemental powers there. The dungeon has a will of it's own, and will also make adjacent dungeons have parts that are sapient. Acting as a part-conscious of the main dungeon.

"There, separated. Now you can support the more grounded ones without automatically supporting the crazy ones."

support

[Atian the Elephantman God]

Create as many Draki as I can with 12E

"The lands shall be ravaged and fear the my creations! The Divine Ruler with my blade cannot be stopped."

"Muahahhahahahah"

The new Draki will be equipped with the Kado's best armor and weapons then march inland to pillage and loot the lands!

[TheBiggerFish]

>Warn the Generickind if they are in danger.

[Detoxicated]

"I am interested if your Draki are disciplined enpugh"

[Chevaleresse]

Inspect the progress of the Keardai's fortifications. They should be building quite strong walls, enhanced with rune magic, and their arms and armor should be top-notch, as well as having more elaborate defensive mechanisms.