Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help  (Read 4012 times)

harison86

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« on: April 23, 2016, 12:32:53 pm »

So I have this really nice fort going, and a really popular tavern with dozens of visitors and guests.
We recently had a werelizard attack which bit one of my fisherdwarves, so I had a squad of soldiers follow him around until I could get an atom smasher set up for him. After a while I thought he wasn't really infected after all since he didn't transform, and as soon as I took the guards off escort duty he transforms and bites three residents/visitors.
My question is how should I deal with the infected? They are 2 long-term residents and 1 visitor, all entertainers. I would like to atom smash them, but I have no idea how to lure them over to the bridge since I can't assign them to squads. I'm considering executing the visitor the old-fashioned way (axe), and I otherwise don't know how to deal with the infected residents. Also, if my militia kills visitors, will there be a loyalty cascade or any other long-term repercussions (ticked civilizations, no more visitors)?
Also this is my first post on this forum and I'm sorry if I somehow managed to break any rules and plz don't hurt me
Logged

darkflagrance

  • Bay Watcher
  • Carry on, carry on
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2016, 01:00:29 pm »

So I have this really nice fort going, and a really popular tavern with dozens of visitors and guests.
We recently had a werelizard attack which bit one of my fisherdwarves, so I had a squad of soldiers follow him around until I could get an atom smasher set up for him. After a while I thought he wasn't really infected after all since he didn't transform, and as soon as I took the guards off escort duty he transforms and bites three residents/visitors.
My question is how should I deal with the infected? They are 2 long-term residents and 1 visitor, all entertainers. I would like to atom smash them, but I have no idea how to lure them over to the bridge since I can't assign them to squads. I'm considering executing the visitor the old-fashioned way (axe), and I otherwise don't know how to deal with the infected residents. Also, if my militia kills visitors, will there be a loyalty cascade or any other long-term repercussions (ticked civilizations, no more visitors)?
Also this is my first post on this forum and I'm sorry if I somehow managed to break any rules and plz don't hurt me

Make a new tavern in a small, sealed room and disable your old one or make it inaccessible to visitors. Burrow your dwarves so they don't access it, and wait for it to fill with the undesired visitors/ltrs. Once they are in, seal the door and don't ever let them out. If some innocent non-citizens have to get locked in with the werebeasts, well, being an overseer means making the hard decisions.
Logged
...as if nothing really matters...
   
The Legend of Tholtig Cryptbrain: 8000 dead elves and a cyclops

Tired of going decades without goblin sieges? Try The Fortress Defense Mod

Killgoth

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2016, 01:24:21 pm »

You can have your militia directly execute visitors, but I don't know if the militia will attack residents.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 01:26:58 pm by Killgoth »
Logged

Niddhoger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 03:13:19 pm »

You can have your militia directly execute visitors, but I don't know if the militia will attack residents.

They won't.  I had this problem when I realized a human dancer I had just granted residency to was a vampire.  You can neither assign them burrows nor execute them like a simple guests.  I had to lock this vamp into a room until I could get a more permanent solution ironed out.

As far as werebeast transformations... they only transform at fixed times.  You can go to the wiki and see -exactly- which day for a given month is considered a full moon.  Furthermore, the infection rate from a bite is only 50%... and 0% if it didn't actually draw blood (fairly confident bruises resulting from bites that couldn't pierce armor don't count).  Thus, just arbitrarily killing every bitten dorf (and simply sic'ing soldiers on him is begging to have the cycle repeated) is needlessly wasteful.  The point is to quickly QUARANTINE potential risks, ideally one at a time.  Thus, you don't kill all 3 potential victim when only one winds up infected.  Or in your case, kill a perfectly fine fisherdwarf when you can easily check if hes infected or not. Either build hospital beds that can be individually walled off, or burrow him at the end of a narrow hallway and brick it up.  Check the wiki for when that "certain time of the month" is, and release him if he doesn't hulk out past that date.

Now, long-term residents are a bit more of a problem.  You can't control them, but you can find where their bedroom is and lock/wall them in.  Lycans are BD's, so simply locking a door won't necesarily hold them like a vamp.  However, you can find their bedroom and wait to see if they enter.  Or you can potentially wall them into a church.  Sadly, you cant use taverns alone to separate your dorfs from guests.  You can't bar citizens from a tavern, and citizens will freely ignore their exclusive taverns to crash the "no restrictions" tavern you hoped to catch the infected in.  You'll defininetly need to use burrows to separate your citizens from POTENTIAL hazards.

One thing you can try is unassigning your tavern/temple and then putting all your citizens safely behind a civilian alert.  Then find out the deity of the infected and make your old chapel only respect these gods (if you want to preserve the non-infected visitors, try making other temples for them to help filter everyone?).  This should draw the infected to the new temple.  Once they are inside, lock the door, cancel the civ alert, and then quickly wall it up.  The infected will likely kill the rest, but its the best way to separate your citizens from the visitors in question. 
Logged

harison86

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 03:28:13 pm »

Two of the bitten were isolated (along with a large number of other innocents for the greater good). The third would only wander around the fort and refused to isolate themselves, and only afterwards did I realize it was because my "special" tavern was set up to only accept visitors while that one twat was a resident. It didn't matter anyway as I soon found out only that one guy was infected when he transformed and the others didn't. At least six dwarves including my armorer were bitten, and now I'm going to smash isolate them.
Thanks for the answers guys! And for future reference, does anyone know the repercussions for killing visitors directly?
perfectly fine fisherdwarf   
In my defense, he was not perfectly fine as he transformed and bit a bunch of people. Also, thanks for the 50% infection info, I didn't know that and will try not to indiscriminately kill bite victims now!
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2016, 04:54:43 pm »

If the critter attacked has relatives or friends in the fortress they can attack the attackers to exact vengeance, which can lead to a loyalty cascade. Killing a were while in were form is thought to be OK, but if it transforms back just as the killing blow lands trouble can erupt. Thus, "unfortunate accidents" is the best way to deal with troublesome citizens, residents, and visitors.
Logged

TheFlame52

  • Bay Watcher
  • Certified geezer & only man to win 0.40.24
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2016, 08:54:08 am »

No, it's always 100% infection rate. Look at the combat reports. If a werebeast bites someone and breaks the skin on the initial attack (shaking doesn't count) they're infected.

Niddhoger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2016, 02:43:18 pm »

It may just be that I didn't think they were 100% due to not all bites breaking the skin, but even so I'm pretty sure blood-bites aren't 100%. 

Btw, afaik there are no direct reprecussions for killing visitors.  If they have stayed long enough to make friends with some of your citizens, this can cause some trouble.  At most though, killing them just marks your tavern as "unsafe." If you start indiscriminately butchering all your "guests" for their clothing/books/instruments/armor, you'll find that stream of visitors drying up.  Ramping up created wealth should entice more to arrive, though- they are a lot like visitors in that regard.
Logged

TheFlame52

  • Bay Watcher
  • Certified geezer & only man to win 0.40.24
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2016, 03:25:27 pm »

I've dredged up some of the werebeast code from 0.40. It hasn't changed since and I don't have the ability to take code out of the game in 0.42.

Spoiler: Werebull (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Werebull Interaction (click to show/hide)

As you can see (or rather you can't), there's nothing in the creature or interaction that says anything about probability. It just says that it does what it does. In my DF modding experience that means it's a 100% chance.

NW_Kohaku

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:SCIENCE_FOR_FUN: REQUIRED]
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2016, 03:47:27 pm »

I'd recommend not killing them, actually.  Do that isolation tavern trick, and have a chute to drop food and booze in.  Also, it's possible for you to misidentify who actually is infected or not, so make sure that you individually isolate the victims until such time as you can confirm they're all infected.  Once you have, they're all best buddies with one another.

LoudWhispers created a crack "Werecivet commando team" that exploited their massive healing factor by turning them all into elite warriors in masterwork steel that regenerated all wounds at the end of the month.  They were used as the point of the spear to conquer the HFS. The only ones that died were when they became too distraught and tantrumed against one another, so make sure you go out of your way to keep the "were fortress" happy and shiny.  (Try setting up a mist generator, maybe?)  Then, try to get them all into a single squad and equip them for war.  Even FBs and clowns with horrifying syndromes have no effect on a werecreature, and that's really the most dangerous effect an FB can have.  A group of six legendary werewarriors should be able to wreck even the largest goblin sieges on their own.
Logged
Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

TheFlame52

  • Bay Watcher
  • Certified geezer & only man to win 0.40.24
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2016, 03:56:28 pm »

LoudWhispers created a crack "Werecivet commando team" that exploited their massive healing factor by turning them all into elite warriors in masterwork steel that regenerated all wounds at the end of the month.
I remember that. I can't remember if the werecivets were close enough to dwarves in size that they didn't need armor or if they were dropped in bare-ass naked, only having weapons.

I would recommend isolating them, too. Use burrows or the tavern trick. How's your military?

harison86

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2016, 08:52:25 pm »

'Scuse me for not replying to all this sooner, I'm new to using forums and being social.
My military is honestly very solid. I have multiple legendary melee dwarves with full steel thanks to my dwarves cranking out so many bars, my miners can't keep up (I need more miners...). The plan now is to isolate the dwarves, figure out which ones are actually werelizards now, and try to replicate that weresquad anyway because I've never done anything appropriately awesome for DF before.
Also according to the wiki, werebeast soldiers are too big for dwarf armor but will hold on to everything else.
This is gonna be fun and FUN.
EDIT: I just had a think, werebeasts are size 80000 according to the wiki. If I get a human or even animal man permanent resident, they can make bigger armor for my werebeast squad. Are there any size 80000 animal men?
EDIT2: Yes, of course there are size 80000 animal men, thank you wiki.
EDIT3: No, wait, dwarves can't wear size 80000
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 09:09:15 pm by harison86 »
Logged

Niddhoger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2016, 09:23:00 pm »

Eh... they have to have something with the [CAN_GRASP] tag to use weapons in wereform.  Take wereasses for example, they will just have a mouth and four hooves... so unless you want to mod grasping onto their mouth, they have nothing to hold a weapon with. 

Now, take weregophers.  As hilariously harmless as they sound, they both have grasping hands and a transformed size small enough to wear dorf-sized armor.  So they can and WILL keep all their equipment when they transform!

While we can create armors of different sizes, its not likely that you can equip the larger armor onto the dorf before it transforms.  Similarly, a werecreature won't stop to pick up a new set of armor.  So for most all beasts, this means they risk being nekid if they revert before a fight is over.  Just don't send out a few of them against a large siege and think it'll work out. 
Logged

NW_Kohaku

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:SCIENCE_FOR_FUN: REQUIRED]
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2016, 12:34:26 am »

Is there a list somewhere of the features of different werebeasts?  He said his particular curse was werelizard, which I assume would be a smaller version like a weregopher, since standard lizards are vermin in DF.

Also, civets are roughly 3kg or 3,000 cm3 size creatures in DF terms, although civets don't exist as a base creature. By comparison, lizards are 200 cm3 creatures in DF, and a quick look at wikipedia says gophers are around 230g, or 230 cm3 size creatures in DF terms.  By those calculations, werelizards and weregophers should be roughly on par in terms of size... provided Toady was looking at the same math I was.
Logged
Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

harison86

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Werebeast bitten visitors and long-term residents help
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2016, 05:11:49 am »

Oh, I remember! The only reason my fisherdwarf wasn't instantly mauled to death was because the first werelizard started beating him with a hat. So werelizards can grasp.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2