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[Random_Dragon]

An idea occurred to me while pondering a mod I've been mucking about with. It might be desirable to allow for attempts to tame wildlife without cage traps first.

The first idea for this might be to make it an option in the kennels, which is presently of little use due to its prior use for training being superceded by. Being able to select which animal to bring in, from a list of those currently visible on the map, might be a useful option in the details menu. This adds to the coding complexity though.

The next step would be to go out and attempt to lure an animal. At a bare minimum it would use food in the same way it's required for taming a caged animal. The need for a rope or chain to lead it back to the kennel might be a useful flavor detail as well, or an additional balancing factor.

The advantage of this over cage traps is that it is proactive, more direct. The main disadvantage is leaving the semi-wild animal uncaged, but other disadvantages might occur as well. As with hunting, it might result in a certain level of risk depending on what animals the trainer encounters along the way.

Additionally, allowing for the animal to possibly flee or attack in response to the initial attempt to feed it might allow an additional balancing factor, and could depend on the trainer's skill level. Again, this is an optional detail that would make the idea more complex to implement, but might be useful for fleshing it out relative to the normal taming method.

Another use for this is for mods, namely ones where the playable civilization lacks access to mechanics. This brings it back to the issue of what led to this suggestion, my use of a mod for a more primitive playable civ. Being able to tame wildlife instead of relying on domestic animals would be a logical flavor detail, but doing so would require the use of mechanics.

[Bumber]

I'm pretty sure it's part of the Crime and Punishment Arc, which involves capture and binding of creatures.

[Random_Dragon]

That would be useful, yes. Though that sounds more like a forgotten "oh hey we implemented this" thing, though possibly it also implies it occurring to be seen in adventure mode.

I highly doubt that sounds like something that would relate to a useful feature for animal taming. :V

[Bumber]

Well, binding needs to be implemented to capture criminals. We already have non-lethal combat now.

I believe Toady has said that cage traps are going to change.

Also:
Hunting with lasso
So we'll have kill orders, but how about capture orders

[Random_Dragon]

Hmm. So the basic idea has been suggested before, yeah. Though I'm not sure what all Toady has said regarding cage traps. I would assume the dominant idea is that cage traps need a nerf of some sort.

[n4m3l3ss]

Yes, it would be very useful. Then I could catch some bears and giant bats without putting cage traps and walls all over the place.

I imagine this could be implemented in two steps:
1) In addition to the "kill" command, the military could also have a "subdue" command. Then the military would try to get the enemy to fall over, give in to pain and/or lose consciousness without killing it. For example, the military would only attack the limbs and only with blunt attacks.
2) Then the soldiers would attempt to tie up any such enemy that falls over, gives in to pain or loses consciousness. The enemy would have a status somewhat similar to <caged> and the civilians will pick it up and take it to an empty cage.

[KillzEmAllGod]

Pretty much just sounds like nets and a shit ton of chains for dragons, though it would need to be dynamic enough to be able to catch the bigger beasts.

[Random_Dragon]

I think it might ideally not only take into account the animal trainer's skill level, but also some factors presented by the target animal. Right now megabeasts are impossible to tame safely anyway to a bug, so even once that gets unfucked it'd make sense for megabeasts to be immune to getting lured in and leashed up.

Giant variants, large predators, being prone to rage, or various other tokens might all logically modify resistance to being tamed via this method. :V

[paShadoWn]

If you have a slightest idea how taming worked in the Cave Age, you will know it didnt involved any cages whatsover, because it consisted of carefully approaching the animal, offering it its favourite food and trying to communicate with it. Rimworld does this exactly right.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalės]

If you have the slightest idea how to communicate, you do not jump into a calm, completely nonhostile conversation and start throwing insults around. 

Welcome to the forums. Learn how to be nice.

Edit: I may have slightly overreacted. But still: don't start your post with "if you have the slightest idea". There's been almost no disagreement over the fact that yes, we need to be able to tame animals without the use of cage traps.

Edit: "So, far from a benign human adopting a wolf puppy, it is more likely that a population of wolves adopted us. As the advantages of dog ownership became clear, we were as strongly affected by our relationship with them as they have been by their relationship with us. Dogs may even have been the catalyst for our civilization." It didn't involve any cages whatsoever, because the first domestication actually involved the wolves approaching us. A cursory Google search turned that up! You come in to this thread, start by insulting every previous poster even though they don't agree with you, and assert a general statement which isn't even completely true! The hell, man?!

[Random_Dragon]

Well that was unexpected. But yeah, no need for drama, seems so far that some form of non-cage taming is desirable, just a matter of pondering details.

Plus the whole "offering it food" is how the second step goes in vanilla DF anyway. It's just we currently have no way to skip step one, caging it. :V

[FantasticDorf]

I think it might ideally not only take into account the animal trainer's skill level, but also some factors presented by the target animal. Right now megabeasts are impossible to tame safely anyway to a bug, so even once that gets unfucked it'd make sense for megabeasts to be immune to getting lured in and leashed up.

Giant variants, large predators, being prone to rage, or various other tokens might all logically modify resistance to being tamed via this method. :V

This is Melgor The Ironstrike Nightmare the giant, he is bound in the artifact webbed iron chain "Milkfish of Magma"

I remember reading a tid-bit somewhere that artifact cages can be broken out of inversely to regular cages that are 'invincible'. Maybe perhaps if those resistances you mention random dragon were to take place, this method of beating them down and subduing them might be more reliable BEFORE transferral into a cage. Given the risk of not being able to assign individual traps without micromanagement to which a giant may take a few moments to shatter out of a wood cage you lay down opposed to greeting it head on with a team of wrestlers to exhaust it with risk of loss of life.

Wrestling a sea monsters/sea life would be more fun than engineering (i've always had a soft spot for trying to farm aquatic animals, in the hopes i may be able to soon create my own water-temple-esque ocean fort) cage traps forcing them to shore and user friendly. Fight a orca out in sea (without dying of exhaustion and drowing we hope) drag it to shore with a pre-prepared aquarium waiting for it to secure for later (training/pitting)

I guess i just have lucid imagery in my head of wild but cleverly bound war beasts let loose and held tightly on a leash by handlers rather than trainers, as if to say that same giant bound up earlier with some very strong dwarves on either side, could be goaded around as a crude weapon without training which with enough civilians regarding they can get close enough or tire the beast can be dragged back and chained up safely now it has gripping safety leashes and bindings on it.

[Random_Dragon]

Potentially interesting, yes. Though I think that maybe trying to wrestle a wild animal into submission might not be the best way to implement it. Might be interesting, but perhaps a simple roll for pacifying it with food might be best. That way it isn't as reliable as the way cage-trap training is now. It's easier to implement and more efficient, but it would carry the risk of a dorf standing around waving food at a wild animal that's now been aggro'd.

[FantasticDorf]

Potentially interesting, yes. Though I think that maybe trying to wrestle a wild animal into submission might not be the best way to implement it. Might be interesting, but perhaps a simple roll for pacifying it with food might be best. That way it isn't as reliable as the way cage-trap training is now. It's easier to implement and more efficient, but it would carry the risk of a dorf standing around waving food at a wild animal that's now been aggro'd.

If you would please pardon the insult, i can't help but feel your method is a very elfish way of doing things, like how i would imagine a pointy eared no-beard simply walking up to a animal, patting it on a head and slipping a tasty dish under its nose with one hand and gently applying a slack rope around its neck. Then gently coaxing it into a cage to be sold to drunken psychopaths who will set it on fire or something.

While my method sounds very brutal and torturistic like a goblin practice. Knock it down suddenly with a club or a team of greased up big wrestlers, in the instance its alive haul it back, slam it in a cage and point some sharp implements at it until it plays ball/cast some hexes and we're good to go.

Maybe being the moderate dorfs we are a compromise could be certainly optimal depending on the situation with beating it up being a last resort when baiting fails to work as you oh so aptly describe as entering "aggro" (there is also the problem of benign creatures being inherently skittish to which you might not even be able to get near)

Putting chains on something inside a cage in which to then haul back out again safely (goblins in a line chained together walking towards the pit in which doom awaits) is probably easier, and by most means wouldn't need to be done on trained pets without being marked for it, it'd be like a lightweight cage i guess that doesn't restrict movement but neutralises outlashes until they can get free or off screen.

Ooh that gives a idea

DORF PRISON SCENARIO

- Recieve a shipment of dwarfs alongside migrants every month that are transferred to set up jail restraints and special scenario burrow options/areas that arrive bound in chains of differing quality, restraining until the 'end' is not enough to pass the scenario and careful management is needed to release them from the chains to contribute to the fortress else the ever dwinding amount of migrants decreases and the prison inmate in-take increases. Objectives such as have inmates dig so many levels down, produce so much of a good and have so many in-mates alive by the end of the scenario's set objective timeline.

[Random_Dragon]

If you would please pardon the insult, i can't help but feel your method is a very elfish way of doing things, like how i would imagine a pointy eared no-beard simply walking up to a animal, patting it on a head and slipping a tasty dish under its nose with one hand and gently applying a slack rope around its neck. Then gently coaxing it into a cage to be sold to drunken psychopaths who will set it on fire or something.

Basically because my idea was essentially adapting the way taming already-caged animals works. We already do it the elven way, it's just we first subdue via very dwarven cage traps first. XP