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Author Topic: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans  (Read 3067 times)

Button

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Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« on: April 07, 2016, 11:39:46 am »

So, you may know that I'm working on a comprehensive plants mod. Which means that, yes, I'm including hemp's psychogenic properties.

Here's the thing: I've never partaken. So I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgable would take a look at these syndromes, let me know if I'm in the right ballpark, and suggest any tweaks.

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Atomisk

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 12:10:30 pm »

well i'm getting high and coding a mod myself so there's no change to hard work ;D though I do want to leisure more. There is one thing I'd suggest and that is that marijuana is a painkiller but its not really numbing. A youtube video also told me it lowers inflammation if df cares? also two strains of marijuana. well three. hemp is industrial, makes good material. better than wood, better paper, better... everything. not smokable. then the strain of weed that makes you kinda tired and leisurely and the other one that makes you... more thinky! Both make you more prone to be more creative and the method of smoking it matters. More weed means more intense effect in my opinion. i dunno if you can specify delivery method concentration but a bong or vape is probably most effective method of 'refer madness' syndrome infection.


comprehensive?
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Button

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 12:54:39 pm »

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comprehensive?

That's the intent. It's not there yet, of course, but I've been documenting a lot of my research on the wiki. Here's the impressive page. (The regular links are to vanilla plants; the "Scratchpad" links are to my drafts, which are at varying degress of roughness.)

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well i'm getting high and coding a mod myself so there's no change to hard work ;D though I do want to leisure more.

*scribbles notes*

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There is one thing I'd suggest and that is that marijuana is a painkiller but its not really numbing.

Is there a way to reduce pain without numbing? I don't recall one.

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A youtube video also told me it lowers inflammation if df cares?

I'm pretty sure there's no way to model that in DF :-\

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also two strains of marijuana. well three. hemp is industrial, makes good material. better than wood, better paper, better... everything. not smokable. then the strain of weed that makes you kinda tired and leisurely and the other one that makes you... more thinky!

Since domestication & the subsequent breeding of different strains of a plant aren't currently modeled in DF, I'm currently trying to represent all the strains of cannabis in one type of plant. There are just too many strains of too many different kinds of plants to create separate plant species for each of them. The bananas alone...

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More weed means more intense effect in my opinion. i dunno if you can specify delivery method concentration but a bong or vape is probably most effective method of 'refer madness' syndrome infection.

As you can see above I have the syndrome stacking with more doses, like alcohol does, but you need extra hits to add more doses.

Currently there's not a way to intentionally inhale something in DF except to boil it or light it on fire, and then stand in its smoke or steam. Most hemp buds in DF will probably be consumed as an edible.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 05:45:33 pm by Button »
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Putnam

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 04:55:05 pm »

hemp doesn't really have them enough to matter afaik

also, i'm from washington, uh, we have it legal here too you know

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 05:45:04 pm »

hemp doesn't really have them enough to matter afaik

Since domestication & the subsequent breeding of different strains of a plant aren't currently modeled in DF, I'm currently trying to represent all the strains of cannabis in one plant. There are just too many strains of too many different kinds of plants to create separate plant species for each of them. The bananas alone...

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also, i'm from washington, uh, we have it legal here too you know

I know, but there' s a title length limit. I figured "stoners" + "Coloradoans" would get the subject of the question across. Just a failed attempt at cleverness.
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Atomisk

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 07:35:15 pm »

Is there a way to reduce pain without numbing? I don't recall one.
Maybe not in the game! But I guess it partially blocks the pain receptors in the brain. so it's More like it gives you NOPAIN temporarily.
Currently there's not a way to intentionally inhale something in DF except to boil it or light it on fire, and then stand in its smoke or steam. Most hemp buds in DF will probably be consumed as an edible.
Just say dwarves don't like to smoke the bud, thus they make edibles. They say it's a cleaner high anyway. Dwarves now make brownies should they be venturing herbalists ... lol.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 07:55:02 pm »

You are missing most forms of tea... 

Incidentally, I didn't respond in the questions thread, but one major reason I put in chamomile tea is because camellia sinensis is tropical-only, and DF does not have a tea trade.

If you're including all sorts of new plants with "syndromes", then there are a tremendous number of herbs with effects that are either not present in DF or not represented in-game if they are present. 

I.E. Meadowsweet (AKA Meadsweet, as it was used as a sweetener in alcohols) is a natural painkiller that is the original source of aspirin.  It's traditionally used in herbal teas as a painkiller.

For that matter, I have a whole book on herbal remedies, many of which are used as spices in cooking or brewed into teas. The likes of ginseng, ginger, garlic, pepper, turmeric and many other common cooking spices all have medicinal values, from mood to joint pain.  (Meanwhile, I love my Egyptian Licorice Mint as a digestive as well as the best flavor tea...)
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Button

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 10:23:30 pm »

Is there a way to reduce pain without numbing? I don't recall one.
Maybe not in the game! But I guess it partially blocks the pain receptors in the brain. so it's More like it gives you NOPAIN temporarily.

That seems a little strong for anything short of, like, opium. I guess if it was a really short period... or maybe a short "spikes" of NOPAIN, thus reducing your average pain?

You are missing most forms of tea...

The "hard brewing" mod I have some notes on would include a module specifically for tea farming, with cultivars and different processing steps. It's just a pretty daunting challenge. There's the matter of simulating aging (which will probably require DFHack), the effects of storage at different temperatures & under different conditions, different cooking techniques, how the tea changes when you use each technique at each step of the process... not to mention the problem of balancing the high risk of failure with the reward in such a way that players don't immediately specialize in the first preparation they discover, and use it to crank out so much wealth that they don't care to discover another variety.

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Incidentally, I didn't respond in the questions thread, but one major reason I put in chamomile tea is because

You don't need to justify yourself to me, hon. Nothing wrong with tisanes, I'm partial to mint myself. They're just not tea. ;)

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If you're including all sorts of new plants with "syndromes", then there are a tremendous number of herbs with effects that are either not present in DF or not represented in-game if they are present.

I'm not including any new plants at present.

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I.E. e.g. Meadowsweet (AKA Meadsweet, as it was used as a sweetener in alcohols) is a natural painkiller that is the original source of aspirin.  It's traditionally used in herbal teas as a painkiller. For that matter, I have a whole book on herbal remedies, many of which are used as spices in cooking or brewed into teas. The likes of ginseng, ginger, garlic, pepper, turmeric and many other common cooking spices all have medicinal values, from mood to joint pain.

Hm, I'd always heard the original source of aspirin was willow bark.

Unfortunately, syndromes have a limited range of effects available at the moment, and they're primarily geared towards making dwarves' lives as shitty as possible. Reducing pain - short of completely removing the capacity to feel pain - isn't one of them (AFAIK).

The slow buildup of arsenic poisoning after too much cassava and ginkgo seeds? Sure. Euphoria and increased artistic sensitivity from THC? You got it, fam. But dwarves don't suffer from joint pain unless their joints have been locked in combat, in which case they're going to need something stronger. Mood manipulation on a level subtle enough to not be a controlled substance isn't possible with the current syndrome system (I don't think - a lot changed in 0.42, so I may be behind the times on syndrome subtlety). And the only purpose dwarves' digestive systems serve is to spill out their bellies when they're gutted, so laxatives are out.

If you have any suggestions you'd like to make for new uses for plants which already exist in Dwarf Fortress, please consider contributing them in the Expanded Plants thread. This thread is for flagging down stoners to give input on the syndromes I guessed at for cannabis. :)
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 10:34:38 pm »

Mood manipulation on a level subtle enough to not be a controlled substance isn't possible with the current syndrome system (I don't think - a lot changed in 0.42, so I may be behind the times on syndrome subtlety).

You can give a happy thought/release of stress from a syndrome tied to a drink, and mood changes can be set pretty subtly now, thanks to the code put in so that alcohol causes "euphoria", which can be toned down.

Having a nice soothing drink give a minor happy thought and -5 ANGER_PROPENSITY (and a few other personality traits revolving around anger, jealousy, or sadism) is subtle to the point I doubt any player would even actually notice the difference.
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2016, 03:36:18 pm »

as of my few experiences with two different sorts of cannabis-derivates, i can only describe two different kinds of syndrome sets:

1. sativa ( typically called "green" ) : it calms down, makes creative, "enlightens" by giving strange thoughts of insight, makes reaction/reflex times longer, doesn't make you passive.

2. indica ( typically called "brown" ) : it calms down, "enlightens" by giving strange thoughts of insight, makes reaction/reflex times longer, make you passive (as your mouth is totally dryto the point of totally annoying you and your drink is just an armlength away from your sofa, but you just can't be arsed to move and get a sip.) .

if you add those two types of cannabis to the game, that would lead to soooo much ‼FUN‼ :D

also this usually doesn't give any strange bodily experience as loss of balance or anything alike.
no numbness, no Neusea or anything alike.
except for if you get some strange stuff overbuffed from Holland and overdose that shit by smoking it from dusk til dawn, because then that shit can get you psychotic paranoid until the end of your days.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 06:54:24 pm by Pvt. Pirate »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2016, 10:27:41 pm »

Actually, now that I think of it, you can backdoor add pain relief if you temporarily add Willpower to a dwarf. 

Willpower, if I remember correctly, is used in resisting the negative effects of pain, so a boost to Willpower should functionally achieve the same thing as a reduction in pain, although it may have some other minor side effects.
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"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
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Grimlocke

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 04:39:28 am »

Yes, I used willpower in my adrenaline simulation interaction and it works pretty well (creatures no longer pass out from a broken toe in the middle of combat), though you have to add quite a lot for significant effects.

That's not to say that I think weed would make for a very effective combat drug  :P
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 07:44:44 am »

hmm maybe a stoned dwarf could have a creative boost, making higher quality goods/engravings (or widen the random range of the quality).
it would be useless as a battledrug.
it could temporarily boost the philosopher skills...
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Putnam

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 08:56:20 pm »

You boost all skills or no skills.

Pvt. Pirate

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Re: Question for stoners and/or Coloradoans
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 09:26:17 pm »

hmmm could be a strange outcome, but maybe just try boosting them all at once adn see what the grass does :D
can you directly hinde rsome skills? liek dodge or everythign else that is prone to reflexes?
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