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IF YOU COULD VOTE TO LEAVE OR REMAIN WITHIN THE EUROPEAN UNION AS A SUBJECT OF HRH (PBUH) WITH PERMANENT RESIDENCE IN THE UK OR CITIZENSHIP ABROAD, HOW WOULD YOU VOTE?

FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY
Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with
Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards
Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with
FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

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Author Topic: Breeki British Brexit thread  (Read 154399 times)

Loud Whispers

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Breeki British Brexit thread
« on: March 25, 2016, 11:49:00 am »

DRINK TEA and discuss civilly the Brexit Exit of the European Union referendum bonanza. The destiny of the country is at hand! How shall it be shaped, the decision shall likely be final!

WOOOOOOO REFERENDUM HYPE GET NAKED, GET VOTING (not necessarily in that order).

The referendum will be held on the 23rd of June in the current year of 2016
If you are a British citizen who has not spent more than 15 years off the electoral college abroad, or an Irish, Maltese, Cypriot or Commonwealth citizen with residency in the United Kingdom you will get the opportunity to vote in this once in a lifetime referendum.
SO VOTE
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 11:50:06 am by Loud Whispers »
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RedKing

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As an American, I've got no skin in the game. But I would like to see the European project succeed, if only to provide an alternative model of how a huge, multi-ethnic democracy can function. Cause it sure as shit ain't working right over here.


On the other hand, if Brexit=Scexit, then I'm conflicted. And perhaps having "special snowflake" Britain out of the EU would let it become more uniform instead of always having to carve out special exemptions for Britain (Eurozone, Schengen, etc.)
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Loud Whispers

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As an American, I've got no skin in the game. But I would like to see the European project succeed, if only to provide an alternative model of how a huge, multi-ethnic democracy can function. Cause it sure as shit ain't working right over here.
What of the EU to you demonstrates a successful multi-ethnic democracy?

On the other hand, if Brexit=Scexit, then I'm conflicted. And perhaps having "special snowflake" Britain out of the EU would let it become more uniform instead of always having to carve out special exemptions for Britain (Eurozone, Schengen, etc.)
Ah, there is a difference in viewpoint between intrapond relations I think. Those who see the European Union as being the origin of sovereignty, graciously giving the Britons exemptions from some of its demands; where for us we see us being held to demands, losing power that was always ours. Alas!

A former big guy working 4u has slated the EU as getting in the way of nations to protect their own citizens. CIA = CHEEKY I AM

The religious leader at Scotland's biggest mosque has praised an extremist who was executed for committing murder in Pakistan, the BBC can reveal. Proof once more that both sides of the Roman wall, all are united in enrichment

BOGOLORD BORIS confirming he is out and proud
I don't understand how his brain works but it is a wonderful thing to watch

Former MI6 chief wrecks Cameron with no survivors
Brussels appears to have compelled the big guys to come and speak out

RedKing

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As an American, I've got no skin in the game. But I would like to see the European project succeed, if only to provide an alternative model of how a huge, multi-ethnic democracy can function. Cause it sure as shit ain't working right over here.
What of the EU to you demonstrates a successful multi-ethnic democracy?
The fact that you're not all killing each other in the grand tradition of Europe since the Romans?

Quote
On the other hand, if Brexit=Scexit, then I'm conflicted. And perhaps having "special snowflake" Britain out of the EU would let it become more uniform instead of always having to carve out special exemptions for Britain (Eurozone, Schengen, etc.)
Ah, there is a difference in viewpoint between intrapond relations I think. Those who see the European Union as being the origin of sovereignty, graciously giving the Britons exemptions from some of its demands; where for us we see us being held to demands, losing power that was always ours. Alas!
No, I get that argument and there's merit to it. But whereas most of the rest of Europe has been willing to cede national sovereignty on these issues, Britain has to be the one to always opt out. It skews the rest of European supranational policymaking.

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Sheb

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Posting To Watch And Not Read Loud Whispers Fuckhuge Wall Of Rants
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Sheb

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Yeah, but the UK is rather unique in caring that much about preventing the movement of people within the EU.
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Loud Whispers

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The fact that you're not all killing each other in the grand tradition of Europe since the Romans?
Mutually assured destruction and economic interdependence did more for that than the European Union ever did. Consider how the European states did not go toe to toes with Russia in open combat, but the European Union was nonetheless happy to provoke them. No joke, when the Russians invaded Georgia, George Bush wanted to extend NATO Membership to even Ukraine - which Germany warned was an unnecessary provocation which would result in Russian invasion. Yet Germany then offered Ukraine EU Membership with the condition of a common defence policy...?
I'm not even going to go into the nutcase in charge of EU affairs in the Bundestag whose chief principal response to critics within the EU is economic warfare. Sanction the Russians! Cut the Greeks! Sanction the Hungarians! Tariff the Brits!

No, I get that argument and there's merit to it. But whereas most of the rest of Europe has been willing to cede national sovereignty on these issues, Britain has to be the one to always opt out. It skews the rest of European supranational policymaking.
Most of the rest of Europe has not been willing, they have just been ignored. The ceding of national sovereignty has supposed to have been by referendum but they've committed themselves to ignoring democracy and now they have given themselves the powers to just keep taking more. Consider how they gave the authority for Frontex to operate in people's nations without their permission, you only have sovereignty now if you actively defy Brussels and refuse their authority as the Slavs are doing. You are familiar with the Irish referendums and the whole thing with the European Constitution and the Schengen Treaty? This to me does not suggest success, democracy or unity, and given the great success the EU has had in ruining the Eurozone without the UK, I think its dissolution or its reformation is absolutely necessary.
It would be intriguing to see the Commission reform along American Presidential lines, but I'd rather the Continentals subject themselves to the whims of think tanks without the UK you know?
Heck, so many Yuropoor nations don't even get a choice willing or not. Pretty much all of Southern Europe has been screwed over because their parliaments cannot set their own currency rates and so are wholly dependent upon the ECB for financing. Is there something to do with the different histories the Continent and the UK have had? I'm not just talking about the Continent's habit of being united under dictators every now and then, I mean in terms of democracy and taxes. Back when the Kings still had great power, the Parliament did not control any armies (least till Cromwell who chopped the King's head off, but never again), what it did control was taxes. If the King had need of financing he went to Parliament to raise taxes, and this limit was fundamental to the birth of British democracy. Another big milestone, this time with collab from the British B team in their evolution to the A(merican) team. No taxation without representation - again, because taxes found the basis of government. No laws without impartial men to enforce them, no impartial men to enforce them without payment from the state to support them, and in this manner the Prime Minister grew more powerful than the King until the King was ruler symbolically and all power was left to the PM and his mandate from his constituents. Maggie Thatcher, AKA the Iron Lady AKA the Iron Bitch, one of the things she got right that no one can argue thanks to the benefit of time - when the UK was busy debating entering the Euro precursor, its intellectual proponents claimed that the UK would descend into economic collapse if it did not join the Euro. Malvinas Thatcher up front rebuked it as an attempt to remove any teeth from national democracy, as a parliament or senate that has lost the ability to set its own budget is ruling only in name. Today with the UK being the financial capital of the world those arguments are shown to be false and the tragedy the Eurozone crisis has wreaked has shown we were fortunate to have escaped such madness. It also shows the frightening speed in which the people who pushed for a political Union have succeeded, all with such great deceit. Only when they gauged the nation states were incapable of stopping the EU did they drop the pretense that this was about free trade and not about power.

Though enough from me, what else speaks of success to you in the EU being a model you want the US to adopt? What do you find appreciable, how do you think it handles democracy or multiplicity of ethnicities? What do you find criticism worthy, what do you think Washington gains from a centralized EU?

But! You missed the 'I want to vote leave but I can't give the government any data to track me down with, they're just waiting for me to slip up, I'm not letting those bastards take my tax credits or my body-pillow away' option off your poll.
Why haven't you paid your TV license to gain access to fair and unbiased News yet?

So, do we believe in the phone polling, which is pointing towards a Stay, or internet polling, which points toward Leave? Do we think there are going to be any more large-scale Islamic terror attacks in the interim (as that'll surely affect the polls)? Do we expect any voting day shenanigans, or perhaps another late-day attempt to let 16 and 17-year old Lib Dem victims vote in the poll?
Who knows
I don't think they've done polls after Brussels exploded, and YouGov has taken the pro-EU stance which is very painful as they're usually quite disinterested

Also we're a bit too far out for the polls to be of much use, in our general election the only poll that accurately got the elections right was released after everyone had already voted but before the results were polld

Quote
As the facts surrounding the Brussels attacks begin to emerge it is becoming apparent that it was the work not of an isolated cell of Islamic militants based in Belgium but of a much wider network of jihadis in Europe. We already knew of the link between the Paris terrorists and the Molenbeek district of Brussels, home to a large Muslim population and where the last fugitive suspect of the Paris attacks, Salah Abdesalam, was seized last week. Now we also know that DNA traces were found at one of the sites of the Brussels attacks, the airport, of Najim Laachraoui, believed to have been the terrorist who made the explosive devices that created carnage in Paris.

The terrorist threat we now face is clearly a European-wide one. Dealing with it requires Europe-wide co-operation. That much is uncontroversial. But whether that co-operation is best achieved through membership of the European Union is much more contentious. Inevitably the issue has become, at least for the time being, the central focus for both sides in the referendum campaign on whether Britain should remain in or leave the EU.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/24/after-brussels-uk-security/
Hahaha, yougov are even putting guardian articles up
They don't even mention how the Schengen Area and Merkel's leadership of the European Union allowed these thousands of Jihadis to set up all across Europe
Foolish stat merchants!

Yeah, but the UK is rather unique in caring that much about preventing the movement of people within the EU.
We are at the point where Germany and Sweden instigated border controls. Even if they put them behind their borders for PR purposes, being not borders in the same way Japan has not carriers. Italy, Greece, Macedonia, Austria, Hungary, France, Portugal, Poland, Czech. Rep., Serbia, Croatia, Denmark, Britain and more were opposed, to be honest it would be easier listing the countries who wanted the free movement of people - countries that gained from its citizens having easy migration channels to Germany m8

notquitethere

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+1.

Also, let's not have this thread shut down like the last Euro thread.

I'm one of those rare genuinely-on-the-fence voters for the referendum. Off the top of my head:

Pro EU:
- Without working time directive style laws, UK is likely to slide into more workplace oppression (long hours, poor pay and conditions).
- Probably some other stuff

Anti-EU:
- EU is another level of power (over laws etc.) taken away from people
- The CAP isn't as bad as it was but it's still pretty bullshit
- EU projects work in a very top down way which is vulnerable to local corruption

So far, the only left-wing argument for staying in the EU that I'm seeing is basically that a bunch of racists want to leave the EU so it must be a bad idea. The only arguments that get thrown around on the radio are about the effects to the economy or about border security. The economy'll be about the same either way and we already have a moat. Someone throw more interesting arguments at me.
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Loud Whispers

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https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/02/28/eurosceptic-map-britain/
Well neat
Dunno why York is particularly Europhile, and there's this neat strip from north to central to south london that loves the EU (I'm in there). Most of the country is mixed but leaning one way, so in Scotland outside of Aberdeen and Edinburgh its mixed pro EU, whereas for England its mixed pro UK and Wales is more split
Also the coastal towns, cities and regions following pretty much the entire English coast are euroskeptic as fuck
Probably because of how many people were made unemployed by our "fair" quotas set by the EU that meant we couldn't fish our own fish, and we went from providing 60% of Europe's fish to having our fish become depleted under European Common Fishing policy by foreign fishing boats :(
The Spanish and the French depleted the Med and that git Heath illegally gave away all of our sovereign waters and our fishing minister was a joke. Sad days for sad towns, aint got money, aint got fish

Pro EU:
- Without working time directive style laws, UK is likely to slide into more workplace oppression (long hours, poor pay and conditions).
Labour Unions protect more whilst the EU is used to push laws the public do not like into paper without running it through national democracy. That whole great fun with NAFTA, DOHOHO!

- EU projects work in a very top down way which is vulnerable to local corruption
It is local to corruption on the higher level as well, there exists no arbitration of its members or the manner of their appointment or even simple things like receipts for expenses or disclosures of donations

So far, the only left-wing argument for staying in the EU that I'm seeing is basically that a bunch of racists want to leave the EU so it must be a bad idea. The only arguments that get thrown around on the radio are about the effects to the economy or about border security. The economy'll be about the same either way and we already have a moat. Someone throw more interesting arguments at me.
The right wing globalist angle is pretty neat and unique, it's the one where the UK leaving the EU would be bad because it would cause so much instability and panic amongst the Commission and too many eurosceptic groups would feel emboldened by the UK leaving that the EU would have to reduce itself to a free trade union or else stop existing as a political entity capable of projecting power into Africa, the Middle East, East Asia and Russia

Rolepgeek

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Posted to the watchlist.

Or something of that nature.
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Sincerely, Role P. Geek

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Flying Dice

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Now is time for great final making-up of britland and frenchiea, united against german kultural enrichment and yurocentral control right?
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Dorsidwarf

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I ruined the symmetry of the votes because I endorse the noble UK tradition of breaking everything that isn't mine.
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smjjames

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I ruined the symmetry of the votes because I endorse the noble UK tradition of breaking everything that isn't mine.

I made it symmetrical again by being a bit of a troll, in good humor of course.
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TopHat

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Posting To Watch.
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I would ask why fire can burn two men to death without getting hot enough to burn a book, but then I read "INEXTINGUISHABLE RUNNING KAMIKAZE RADIOACTIVE FLAMING ZOMBIE" and realized that logic, reason, and physics are all occupied with crying in the corner right now.

Loud Whispers

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I made it symmetrical again by being a bit of a troll, in good humor of course.
Praise the symmetry
It cannot be broken

WE MUST BE EXACTLY NEUTRAL

I ruined the symmetry of the votes because I endorse the noble UK tradition of breaking everything that isn't mine.
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