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[Iamblichos]

I use it for precisely the reasons listed by ^this guy... hunters and fishers.  When you play in evil biomes, these two classes will cause more drama than almost anything else (followed closely by the weaver who runs out into the caverns any damn chance he gets).  I need to disable them before the X vanishes off the dwarf, or else they will run outside, die on the other side of the map, and leave a giant pile of ZOMG CLOTHES that will kill the whole fort before I realize what's going on.

[Khalari]

This topic should be called Life after DFHack's autolabor.

[Shonai_Dweller]

This topic should be called Life after DFHack's autolabor.

It could be, but since I've never used autolabor and never intend to, it wouldn't make much sense...

[Dunamisdeos]

I have always found therapist to be a curiosity, not a necessary thing. I have my game automatically set dwarves to labors based on skills upon migration. I just remove fishing and hunting and let em' go.

[Viking]

I have always found therapist to be a curiosity, not a necessary thing. I have my game automatically set dwarves to labors based on skills upon migration. I just remove fishing and hunting and let em' go.

How does one accomplish this?

[Dunamisdeos]

I have always found therapist to be a curiosity, not a necessary thing. I have my game automatically set dwarves to labors based on skills upon migration. I just remove fishing and hunting and let em' go.

How does one accomplish this?

[SET_LABOR_LISTS:SKILLS] in d_init. Migrants show up with masonry enabled if they have masonry skill, for example. It's also a Starter Pack option.

[Shonai_Dweller]

That's the default option in vanilla, isn't it?

[Dunamisdeos]

No clue, I always used the pack. But it makes therapist, to me, not something that I need.

Not that it isn't a neat tool, but I like doing everything in the game's UI.

[Niddhoger]

DT doesn't let you accomplish anything you couldn't do in the base game- it's just there to save time. It's very handy when sorting by aptitude to find that creative dorf who loves steel and swords, but you could always find him the hard way.  It also makes grooming scud labor for moods so much easier. That cheesemonger could like a junk metal like zinc, so I shouldn't let him mood as a weaponsmith. I can already do this in vanilla, but with DT I can group by both migrant wave and aptitude to check all this from one screen.

Without it, you just need to screen migrants as they arrive and give them proper nicknames/tweak skills. It's more time consuming, but entirely manageable. 

[Dunamisdeos]

DT doesn't let you accomplish anything you couldn't do in the base game- it's just there to save time. It's very handy when sorting by aptitude to find that creative dorf who loves steel and swords, but you could always find him the hard way.  It also makes grooming scud labor for moods so much easier. That cheesemonger could like a junk metal like zinc, so I shouldn't let him mood as a weaponsmith. I can already do this in vanilla, but with DT I can group by both migrant wave and aptitude to check all this from one screen.

Without it, you just need to screen migrants as they arrive and give them proper nicknames/tweak skills. It's more time consuming, but entirely manageable.

+1

[Shonai_Dweller]

DT doesn't let you accomplish anything you couldn't do in the base game- it's just there to save time. It's very handy when sorting by aptitude to find that creative dorf who loves steel and swords, but you could always find him the hard way.  It also makes grooming scud labor for moods so much easier. That cheesemonger could like a junk metal like zinc, so I shouldn't let him mood as a weaponsmith. I can already do this in vanilla, but with DT I can group by both migrant wave and aptitude to check all this from one screen.

Without it, you just need to screen migrants as they arrive and give them proper nicknames/tweak skills. It's more time consuming, but entirely manageable.

+1

I think it encourages the belief that you need to tweak every single dwarf's skills individually and manage each strange mood to optimal effect. Which is a fine playstyle if you're into that kind of thing and one for which I definitely recommend using a util for.

But, that then leads to the belief that Dwarf Fortress is a game solely for those obssessed by micromanaging. Whereas you can play vanilla dwarf fortress perfectly well without it and people who don't enjoy micromanagement should definitely give it a try.

[Niddhoger]

When I say "tweak skills" I mean turn off hunting/fishing if you don't want to fool with them, turn off the level 1 weaponsmithing on the cheesemonger before he wastes some good steel/candy, turn on skill(s) that you need, and give out nicknames to Hell organize isn't micro.  Just accepting whatever labors appear on your migrants and at whatever skill levels is being lazy byrefusing to engage a core part of the game.  Do you want that level 1 farmer to shove your legendary one out of the way and crap-plant half your tiles!? If you want to train a second farmer and have a robust food/booze surplus, sure.  Otherwise it's just shooting yourself in the foot.  If you want to talk workshop profiles, then that is just a different type of micro.  Proper labor management is an essential part of the game-DT just streamlines it.

Now, pairing attributes and preferences to labours and grooming scud labor for proper moods is definitely micro. No, you don't have to play like this, but DT makes it so much easier.  With DT streamlining it all, we say "Why not?". Even without DT, I'll want the import jobs (like smiths) have paired preferences. If you can double up item/material preferences, it's an effective +4 levels when crafting. Do I have to do this? Ofc not, but if I can easily accomplish it... Why not?

[Shonai_Dweller]

I didn't say I never adjusted labours. That would be pretty weird.  'Tweak' is the level of control the game already gives you. Can be done in therapist if you prefer, sure.

The only issue I have with that is that
1) I don't like alt-tabbing out of df (solved by dfhack when it's updated).
2) Forums across the internet decry dwarf fortress as being unplayable without external utils (yes, it shouldn't bother me, but it does).

(And 3. I had my first 42.06 crash while using Therapist which is probably unrelated, blame paranoia).

[Goatmaan]

I'm still on 40.19, running a mega fort.

Only 2 things make it possible...workflow and dwarf therapist.

When you pass 200 dwarves things get tough, by the time you get 600+ it becomes vital to use them.
I honestly believe a 600+ (pure vanilla) dwarf fort would be impossible without them !
Don't believe me? Try it and see.

     Goatmaan

[NW_Kohaku]

The thing is, the vanilla game works fine... IF you are prepared to just set one or two dwarves to one labor and leave them to blindly make their particular product on repeat forever.

If you ever want to, for any reason, have dwarves with more than one major labor enabled, try NOT having insane stockpiles of either 0 or 10,000 of every item because there is no way to manage production through any setting other than "keep making doors until your hands fall off" or "do nothing", take stock of how many of any given labor you have present or maybe rebalance labor, or just plain see how personality impacts behavior by seeing the actual numeric value, you'll find it nearly impossible without using third-party tools.

Basically, yes, you don't need Therapist if you don't have any interest in what's going on inside your fort or having even the vaguest control over it.  If you are that sort of person, I have to ask why you're even bothering to play DF, since if you're not interested in what's going on, why are you playing?