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[King_of_Baboons]

How about we give necromancers different types of zombies to summon according to their "necromancy skill"?

Maybe necromancers could start off weak as they still haven't mastered the skill to reanimate the dead so when they start creating their first zombies those will be like classic dumb and slow waking zombies.Then,as the necromancer improves his skill over time,the zombies he reanimates become more and more lethal,going from classic Homero zombies to the more faster Zombieland-like zombies to the more smarter Land of The Dead zombies(the ones that can actually use melee weapons but in a very poorly manner) and so on until the necro becomes so powerful(this after several in-game years,mind you) that he can summon full revenants(basically a zombie that can use armor,dodge,jump and use weapons just fine)

This system could be great for both modes.In fort mode the sieges of a necromancer would progressively get more dangerous as you build a successful fort over the years.That siege may take a while to get to you but when it does get your fort you better be prepared.And in adv mode it would actually give you more challenge to your tower raids.

What do you guys think about this?

Experience-tiers for interactions/syndromes/secrets would be lovely. You really should post this as a separate suggestion.

Wish granted.

Okay,so right now when people turn into a night creature in DF the process is kinda...boring.After you finally turn into one of these creatures in adv mode,and had some grinding before the transformation,the game kinda gets too easy.If you're a vampire,you can pretty much just suck people while they sleep with no problems¹.If you're a necro you can just summon an entire army of dead people to kill whatever you want.If you're a lucky werebeast you can commit mass murders 12 times a year without fear.I guess it's time to make those curses more interesting again.

Starting with vampires.They don't have a good time spreading their curse around after worldgen like werebeasts do and the reason behind that is that there are only 2 ways to become one:drink vamp blood or be cursed by the gods.The problem here is that,excluding elves and goblins,humans and dwarfs don't like to eat their enemies bodies due to their ethics and there is no force feed mechanic in the game yet so you can see why there aren't many vampires in the world.There are 2 really simple solutions to this problem: give vampires the ability to convert people when they are sucking them¹ or just make people looking for immortality desperate enough that they will ignore their ethics and drink the vampire blood so this way they can survive longer post worldgen.

Another thing that annoys me is that the transformation itself is just "*puff* you're a vampire now...go do vampire things".Instead of instantaneously becoming a vampire the whole process should be more "Hollywoodian".At first you're not nearly as strong as a full vampire because in order to become and remain strong you need to constantly drink blood from living things.To put it simply,the less a vampire sucks¹ the more he will be slowed down and suffer cave adaptation effects from being out in the sun for too long.As time would go on,vampires would get more tolerant to their weaknesses (like sun and holy water) and would start to form small cults around to spread their powers across people and this could be specially !!FUN!! for both modes since forts could be alot more vulnerable to vampires due to their cults eventually spreading to all of your dorfs and atom smashing everyone is not going to solve your problems entirely.In adv mode you would not only have to kill a single vampire in the town but also his entire damm secret club along him giving a more entretaining quest to you.

Do you guys have any ideas about any other features in DF that could evolve as in-game time passes?The only idea that I have left about that concept is that evil biomes should progressively make your dorfs more unstable and evil until you essentially have dwarfs that act like goblins.


1:Not in that way you pervs.

[IndigoFenix]

Necromancers, for one.  There is no way that glancing at a book for one instant grants you ultimate mastery over the dead.

Secrets should be acquired only with a certain amount of study and dedication, may have prerequisites such as a certain level of skill, attribute, or comprehension of a different secret, and should be capable of leveling up over time or repeated use.

I have some ideas for raw tags to define these qualities, but that is for a different topic.

By the way, TIME_SINCE_SUCKED_BLOOD is a syndrome trigger, so you can mod in vampires that have detrimental effects from going sober.  Would be nice to have it in vanilla though.

[Deus Asmoth]

It would be interesting if werebeasts (or just certain werebeasts cursed by more forgiving gods) were able to get used to their curses and remain sentient after transformation. Possibly with the ability to transform at will or even remain transformed permanently unless exposed to their super effective material. Optional would be certain gods (gods of war, nature etc?) giving the syndrome as a blessing rather than a curse and the afflicted being welcomed back to society and seen as high priest level nobles once they got over their initial crazed transformations, possibly even biting willing devotees of the appropriate god.

For vampires, should a player character have the option to reveal their curse to companions in the hopes of getting their own cultists and willing blood banks?

[NW_Kohaku]

Necromancers, for one.  There is no way that glancing at a book for one instant grants you ultimate mastery over the dead.

Don't forget that you can read a book in an instant even with the barest minimum point in literacy.  That's at a point where you're apparently having trouble with words as long as "mastery" much less "necromancy", and yet you gain instant mastery over necromancy upon seeing the book, like the words literally jump off the page and burrow through into your brain and give you the skill...

... Although that sort of mechanic explains why books are single-use in RPGs...

[expwnent]

I always thought it would be neat if this *wasn't* the case: if the older ones are more powerful because they're more experienced and because their weaker peers got killed off.

[Untrustedlife]

To the people talking about different variations of for example werebeasts where you can transform whenever and different kinds of vampires. I'm sure toady plans to go back and improve them, he talked about randomly generating different kinds of vampire curses (and more interesting werebeasts) in df talk awhile ago, his plans are pretty static so I doubt it isn't on his big list of what, like 2,600 items? So I'm sure he will get to it.

Also the game is still missing over half the night creatures he planned to add.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Yeah, like drowned sailors, moving furniture, moving trees, etc.

[SebasMarolo]

alright, I have some ideas I would like to share. as we all know, vampires in fortress mode leave behind bloodless corpses. What if these corpses turned into vampires after some time? Like, the poor dwarf was placed in a coffin, and after some time(a week, a season, a couple of years... random stretches of time to give it a ticking-timebomb feel) they punch their way out of the coffin, and either run off to change their name and join another fort, go berserker on your fort, or seek out the vampire that vamped them for some retribution (if he/she's still around). having to destroy the body out of fear of it coming back as a night creature would make things much more fun, right?

Now, for adventure mode vamps... Most of the time I turned into a vamp by toppling a statue at a temple. But I just got a message saying that I had been cursed, and then after a day I would go next to a sleeping person and suck their blood, and then and only then the ñ would appear.

what if the moment you become a vamp (drinking/toppling) you also become a follower of a god with evil spheres? and that god talks to you.

I always found it weird that vamps made crafts out of the things they killed by drinking their blood just for the sake of a trophy... but what if the reason they do that is to appease the evil god? Like, if you get cursed, that night the evil god speaks with you and tells you that he/she owns your sorry butt. That now you're a vampire, that sunlight will spell your doom, and the only way to avoid becoming a pile of ash is to drink the blood of the living. Regularly. But that not all is lost (your soul most certainly is), that if you follow his/her commands, he/she can grant you boons of power, abilities beyond just being sun proof.

You could refuse to believe what the god is telling you, and find out just how much the sun can hurt you, or you can go find someone sleeping and drink their blood. and then the god would speak with you again. The god tells you to drink the person dry, killing them. You could refuse, saying that you feel strong enough already to withstand the sun and that you're cutting off all ties with the god, becoming a vampire with none of the benefits (super strength/agility/NOPAIN tag) and all the drawbacks (having to drink blood, going into some kind of cave adaptation thingy if you dont drink enough...)

... Or you could gladly comply. and the god tells you that since people that have been sucked dry WILL become vampires, the corpse infront of you is very valuable. That the vampire curse is twisting the corpse as you speak, filling the empty veins with evil and dark magic... (I wanna say negative energy, but that's too D&D), but that the soul has not been trapped into this evil shell yet. And the god teaches you how to make crafts out of these turning corpses, these "unborn vampires", and by making and wearing more and more of these items, you can become stronger. That's how you would gain doubled speed and strength, the no pain tag, maybe even the ability to turn into mist if you're deadly wounded, to retreat from the fight...
The god could even give you "quests", telling you to make a craft out of a specific creature (could you get the ability to turn into a beast vampire thing that could fly by wearing a necklace made from the bones of a dragon?), or kill the priest of another god, or make more vampires, or defile another god's temple... or break into a vault to steal the tablet and then find the demon and bind him not to yourself, but to the evil god.

Maybe a similar "evil quest" system could be used to give abilities to werebeasts and necromancers. Wanna learn how to supress your transformations? do me a little favor. wanna learn how to turn at will? do me a bigger favor. Wanna learn how to raise more than 10 undeads at a time? wanna learn how to come back from among the dead yourself?

There's soo much potential for night creatures...

[MoonyTheHuman]

alright, I have some ideas I would like to share. as we all know, vampires in fortress mode leave behind bloodless corpses. What if these corpses turned into vampires after some time? Like, the poor dwarf was placed in a coffin, and after some time(a week, a season, a couple of years... random stretches of time to give it a ticking-timebomb feel) they punch their way out of the coffin, and either run off to change their name and join another fort, go berserker on your fort, or seek out the vampire that vamped them for some retribution (if he/she's still around). having to destroy the body out of fear of it coming back as a night creature would make things much more fun, right?

Now, for adventure mode vamps... Most of the time I turned into a vamp by toppling a statue at a temple. But I just got a message saying that I had been cursed, and then after a day I would go next to a sleeping person and suck their blood, and then and only then the ñ would appear.

what if the moment you become a vamp (drinking/toppling) you also become a follower of a god with evil spheres? and that god talks to you.

I always found it weird that vamps made crafts out of the things they killed by drinking their blood just for the sake of a trophy... but what if the reason they do that is to appease the evil god? Like, if you get cursed, that night the evil god speaks with you and tells you that he/she owns your sorry butt. That now you're a vampire, that sunlight will spell your doom, and the only way to avoid becoming a pile of ash is to drink the blood of the living. Regularly. But that not all is lost (your soul most certainly is), that if you follow his/her commands, he/she can grant you boons of power, abilities beyond just being sun proof.

You could refuse to believe what the god is telling you, and find out just how much the sun can hurt you, or you can go find someone sleeping and drink their blood. and then the god would speak with you again. The god tells you to drink the person dry, killing them. You could refuse, saying that you feel strong enough already to withstand the sun and that you're cutting off all ties with the god, becoming a vampire with none of the benefits (super strength/agility/NOPAIN tag) and all the drawbacks (having to drink blood, going into some kind of cave adaptation thingy if you dont drink enough...)

... Or you could gladly comply. and the god tells you that since people that have been sucked dry WILL become vampires, the corpse infront of you is very valuable. That the vampire curse is twisting the corpse as you speak, filling the empty veins with evil and dark magic... (I wanna say negative energy, but that's too D&D), but that the soul has not been trapped into this evil shell yet. And the god teaches you how to make crafts out of these turning corpses, these "unborn vampires", and by making and wearing more and more of these items, you can become stronger. That's how you would gain doubled speed and strength, the no pain tag, maybe even the ability to turn into mist if you're deadly wounded, to retreat from the fight...
The god could even give you "quests", telling you to make a craft out of a specific creature (could you get the ability to turn into a beast vampire thing that could fly by wearing a necklace made from the bones of a dragon?), or kill the priest of another god, or make more vampires, or defile another god's temple... or break into a vault to steal the tablet and then find the demon and bind him not to yourself, but to the evil god.

Maybe a similar "evil quest" system could be used to give abilities to werebeasts and necromancers. Wanna learn how to supress your transformations? do me a little favor. wanna learn how to turn at will? do me a bigger favor. Wanna learn how to raise more than 10 undeads at a time? wanna learn how to come back from among the dead yourself?

There's soo much potential for night creatures...

I up1 this

[red_kangaroo]

Necromancers, for one.  There is no way that glancing at a book for one instant grants you ultimate mastery over the dead.

Don't forget that you can read a book in an instant even with the barest minimum point in literacy.  That's at a point where you're apparently having trouble with words as long as "mastery" much less "necromancy", and yet you gain instant mastery over necromancy upon seeing the book, like the words literally jump off the page and burrow through into your brain and give you the skill...

... Although that sort of mechanic explains why books are single-use in RPGs...

This is how I imagine necromancy bookx work!

[Untrustedlife]

alright, I have some ideas I would like to share. as we all know, vampires in fortress mode leave behind bloodless corpses. What if these corpses turned into vampires after some time? Like, the poor dwarf was placed in a coffin, and after some time(a week, a season, a couple of years... random stretches of time to give it a ticking-timebomb feel) they punch their way out of the coffin, and either run off to change their name and join another fort, go berserker on your fort, or seek out the vampire that vamped them for some retribution (if he/she's still around). having to destroy the body out of fear of it coming back as a night creature would make things much more fun, right?

Now, for adventure mode vamps... Most of the time I turned into a vamp by toppling a statue at a temple. But I just got a message saying that I had been cursed, and then after a day I would go next to a sleeping person and suck their blood, and then and only then the ñ would appear.

what if the moment you become a vamp (drinking/toppling) you also become a follower of a god with evil spheres? and that god talks to you.

I always found it weird that vamps made crafts out of the things they killed by drinking their blood just for the sake of a trophy... but what if the reason they do that is to appease the evil god? Like, if you get cursed, that night the evil god speaks with you and tells you that he/she owns your sorry butt. That now you're a vampire, that sunlight will spell your doom, and the only way to avoid becoming a pile of ash is to drink the blood of the living. Regularly. But that not all is lost (your soul most certainly is), that if you follow his/her commands, he/she can grant you boons of power, abilities beyond just being sun proof.

You could refuse to believe what the god is telling you, and find out just how much the sun can hurt you, or you can go find someone sleeping and drink their blood. and then the god would speak with you again. The god tells you to drink the person dry, killing them. You could refuse, saying that you feel strong enough already to withstand the sun and that you're cutting off all ties with the god, becoming a vampire with none of the benefits (super strength/agility/NOPAIN tag) and all the drawbacks (having to drink blood, going into some kind of cave adaptation thingy if you dont drink enough...)

... Or you could gladly comply. and the god tells you that since people that have been sucked dry WILL become vampires, the corpse infront of you is very valuable. That the vampire curse is twisting the corpse as you speak, filling the empty veins with evil and dark magic... (I wanna say negative energy, but that's too D&D), but that the soul has not been trapped into this evil shell yet. And the god teaches you how to make crafts out of these turning corpses, these "unborn vampires", and by making and wearing more and more of these items, you can become stronger. That's how you would gain doubled speed and strength, the no pain tag, maybe even the ability to turn into mist if you're deadly wounded, to retreat from the fight...
The god could even give you "quests", telling you to make a craft out of a specific creature (could you get the ability to turn into a beast vampire thing that could fly by wearing a necklace made from the bones of a dragon?), or kill the priest of another god, or make more vampires, or defile another god's temple... or break into a vault to steal the tablet and then find the demon and bind him not to yourself, but to the evil god.

Maybe a similar "evil quest" system could be used to give abilities to werebeasts and necromancers. Wanna learn how to supress your transformations? do me a little favor. wanna learn how to turn at will? do me a bigger favor. Wanna learn how to raise more than 10 undeads at a time? wanna learn how to come back from among the dead yourself?

There's soo much potential for night creatures...

I dont see why your god would suddenly change when you are cursed tbh, there is no legends mode lore backing up why that would happen or justifying it at all, I would be fine if suddenly that god hated you though (which should happen), they already cursed you.Everything happens in dwarf fortress for some reason, even if that reason is really abstract and weird. Now, if the magic your world had some effect, for example a god invents vampires, and "blesses people" with vampire-ism, then its logical for you to begin following or be contacted by THAT god.since it is  a blessing from that god, perhaps you actually have to worship that specific god to get the blessing. (kind of like how necros worship death gods, the worship wasn't a result, it was  a cause) Or if for example one god hates another god, so when a good curses you, the god that hates that god would try to recruit you for their needs.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

That's an interesting idea. I always thought that necromancers sought out death gods, and other users confirmed this, but it makes more sense if only "seeking to extend their life at any cost" people THAT ALREADY WORSHIPPED DEATH GODS could become necros. I think I'll ask Toady.

[Untrustedlife]

That's an interesting idea. I always thought that necromancers sought out death gods, and other users confirmed this, but it makes more sense if only "seeking to extend their life at any cost" people THAT ALREADY WORSHIPPED DEATH GODS could become necros. I think I'll ask Toady.

oh no, they seek out death gods, but there god doesn't suddenly change when they become necros they choose to start worshipping the death god before hand so they can become necros.


That person earlier made it sound like you become a vampire and suddenly you are worshiping someone else.You should have to seek out that god not suddenly have your worship changed randomly.

It would be interesting if the god seeked you though.....

[SebasMarolo]

That person earlier made it sound like you become a vampire and suddenly you are worshiping someone else.You should have to seek out that god not suddenly have your worship changed randomly.

It would be interesting if the god seeked you though.....

Yeah, sorry if I didn't explain myself properly. what I described was what the transformation process could be like, not what it's right now.
And yeah, the gods contacting you sure would be cool!

about toppling statues on temples. let's say you defile the temple of a... mountain god. and this is all "what could be". He curses you either to become a beast or to stalk the night forever seeking the blood of the living. In other words, he curses you to be a night creature.

Now, there could be patron gods of night creatures. Or if there's a "night" sphere, any god that has it could welcome sentient night creatures into their flock, or actively seek them out, and guide them through the transformation. maybe teach them how to make the evil items I mentioned before. or with the years and after a lot of work on the night creature's part, appoint them as high priest.

but if you were to become a vampire by killing and drinking the blood of another vampire, and that vampire happened to follow a god of the night... well, maybe that god could pin on you the rest of his vamps. and if there are multiple gods of the night, maybe one could welcome you because of your battle prowess while the other wants nothing but to have you torn apart limb by limb.

something similar could happen with werebeasts. You manage to get out of the fight alive, you get welcomed in, and start on the bottom of the power stair. You manage to cut the other guy's head off, you get whatever position he had.

Also, and I'm just throwing this out there to see if you guys like it.
A necromancer learns how to make a scepter. by equipping it he gains the ability to make it rain anywhere he wants.

Rain that turns the living into undead. In other words, control over evil weather.