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Author Topic: formal duels  (Read 1475 times)

Uzu Bash

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formal duels
« on: February 22, 2016, 02:33:07 pm »

A high respect for law and/or courtesy makes an enraged character less likely to attack a non-hostile without first challenging. By challenging, the initiator isn't attacking out of the blue like an unhinged person, but has the consenting participation of an opponent.

For brawls this doesn't need to be any more formal than one guy saying, "You want to fight?" and the other guy saying "Yeah! (Your mom!)"  The law would be less involved than the values of the participants and observers. Owners of public establishments, such as Tavern Keepers, may have varying house rules: no fighting at all, clean matches, organized sparring, etc.

Higher levels of engagement, up to and including fights to the death, would become more formal, though how these are formalized would vary by the civilization's values. At one extreme, goblin civs may consider all killings, including murders, to be fair duels. Others would require rules of engagement; the conditions required to initiate and conclude the duel; and referees to enforce them, either one agreed on by participants, or a public official required to be in attendance.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 09:06:11 am »

This is a interesting idea.

Say a mandate has been unpaid and in a fit of fury a baron becomes enraged. There is legal justification in dwarven culture for it, god help you if the monarch wades in and twists the rules to be a battle to the death about the mandated production of socks and grouchyness over a lack of recent inebriation.
Quote
"Do you bite your thumb at me Urist?
Yes Urist I do indeed bite thine thumb
Are you a believer in Goshmush the River of Humidity Urist?
Indeed i am Urist
Very well we shall duel, do you accept Urist?
Yes I accept"

{"May blood be spilled in Armok's name}
{May blood be spilled in Armok's name"}


"Urist strikes the count with his fist, but Urist misses!"
"The count bashes Urist in the head with the artifact platinum mace and the part explodes in gore and collapses!"

Elven duels don't even bear thinking about when the victor dines on the loser in a celebratory 'Elf roast'. I wonder if megabeasts being sub-par intelligent respect the rules of duel equitette, might avoid a few scrapes even if it's mainly world-gen or to barter encouragement for mega-beasts to leave non-lethally.

I totally support your idea man.

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Dirst

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 02:33:02 pm »

Depending on the culture, a competition may be more appropriate than a duel.  Musical instrument string throwing contests, anyone?  But sometimes besting someone isn't enough.
Man in Black: I challenge you to a battle of wits.
Vizzini: For the Princess?
Man in Black: [nods]
Vizzini: To the death?
Man in Black: [nods]
Vizzini: I accept!

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RenoFox

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 05:43:25 pm »

I support this idea. It would be nice to have some kind of "En garde!" dialogue option, because currently killing even obvious targets feels kind of wrong.

Adventurer:Hello, I am Justicekiller the Bane of Evil.
Goblin: I am Evilmurderer the Torturer of Innocents. Nice to meet you.
Adventurer: Right... I'll just walk behind you now... with my axe drawn...

IndigoFenix

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2016, 10:50:51 am »

I think this is sort of what the 'You must yield!' dialogue option is supposed to convey, practically speaking.  I would like to see more nuanced options, though, especially since formal duels are a staple of the medieval fantasy setting that DF takes place in.  Options like 'challenge', 'angry challenge' and 'death threat' could be a start (corresponding to 'brawl', 'non-lethal', and 'lethal', respectively; I expect that 'no quarter' implies you have no interest in giving them the dignity of a formal duel).  Ooh, 'challenge for position' could be a fun one.  In later versions, there would also have to be some means of setting details like the stakes of the duel, and which allies (if any) would be allowed to join in.

Seeing as how sports competitions are already a thing in worldgen, I expect that various kinds of formal challenges are planned to show up at some point.

SchmittLenin

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 01:11:18 am »

I wholly support the idea; Formal duels would make fights in general much more nuanced and flavorful...
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FantasticDorf

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 03:21:01 am »

I think this is sort of what the 'You must yield!' dialogue option is supposed to convey, practically speaking.  I would like to see more nuanced options, though, especially since formal duels are a staple of the medieval fantasy setting that DF takes place in.  Options like 'challenge', 'angry challenge' and 'death threat' could be a start (corresponding to 'brawl', 'non-lethal', and 'lethal', respectively; I expect that 'no quarter' implies you have no interest in giving them the dignity of a formal duel).  Ooh, 'challenge for position' could be a fun one.  In later versions, there would also have to be some means of setting details like the stakes of the duel, and which allies (if any) would be allowed to join in.

Seeing as how sports competitions are already a thing in worldgen, I expect that various kinds of formal challenges are planned to show up at some point.

Ooh ooh ooh

Quote
"Smarglebord the wrath of night the cyclops has challenged King Urist Haymaker to right of position!"

"After a polite word with local rivals, Smarglebord the wrath of night the cyclops has become the new master of the settlement of Dinkleguard"
After a intense loyalty cascade, all of the kings relatives are put to death by nine degrees and the cyclops demands and mandates up to three things at a time. Automatically becomes hostile to all civ's but that doesn't matter because you have a kick-ass cyclops 'king' that your dwarves over time may grow fond of (unless they are dead as a result of his barbarity and ruthless law-making that naturally offends dwarves when taboos such as butchery are on the menu) and worship.

It wouldn't make sense for a giant to really claim anything, as they carry [slow-learner], dragons maybe, forgotten beasts? depends i guess.
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Uzu Bash

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 07:04:42 pm »

Depending on the culture, a competition may be more appropriate than a duel.  Musical instrument string throwing contests, anyone?  But sometimes besting someone isn't enough.
I like the idea of expanding the notion of a duel to other skills. If the challenged gets to pick the type of contest then they have a means of begging off a fight without losing face, and the challenger can reject their terms without losing face (this will do nothing to satisfy his rage, though.) And I think more Tavern Keepers would be willing to accommodate a musical contest in their venue than a bar brawl or mortal combat.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2016, 04:46:22 am »

After a intense loyalty cascade, all of the kings relatives are put to death by nine degrees and the cyclops demands and mandates up to three things at a time. Automatically becomes hostile to all civ's but that doesn't matter because you have a kick-ass cyclops 'king' that your dwarves over time may grow fond of (unless they are dead as a result of his barbarity and ruthless law-making that naturally offends dwarves when taboos such as butchery are on the menu) and worship.

It wouldn't make sense for a giant to really claim anything, as they carry [slow-learner], dragons maybe, forgotten beasts? depends i guess.

So the entire civilization is put to death by itself? 
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FantasticDorf

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Re: formal duels
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2016, 05:09:08 am »

After a intense loyalty cascade, all of the kings relatives are put to death by nine degrees and the cyclops demands and mandates up to three things at a time. Automatically becomes hostile to all civ's but that doesn't matter because you have a kick-ass cyclops 'king' that your dwarves over time may grow fond of (unless they are dead as a result of his barbarity and ruthless law-making that naturally offends dwarves when taboos such as butchery are on the menu) and worship.

It wouldn't make sense for a giant to really claim anything, as they carry [slow-learner], dragons maybe, forgotten beasts? depends i guess.

So the entire civilization is put to death by itself?

Moreso the population is whittled down to diehard loyalists and only those hardy enough to keep up with demands.
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