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[Kirkegaard]

A entire other option is to remove some of the features designed over the years, like the dynamic world, in principle it is a very cool feature, but when playing a fort. Do one really care if the rest of the world is changing? As I remember it, that feature did cost something around 20% of the fps.

Hey, yeah, why don't we remove the primary feature that makes DF so great? The thing that none of the DF clones actually even try to copy? The part of the game the Toady actually really, truly enjoys making, and part of what makes it a game worth featuring in the museum of modern art? That'll really help development along.

:V

I don't think you understand what I mean, or else have you maybe just started playing this version?
In a not so ancient past, when you started the game the rest of the world froze, whereas now the game simulate a lot of stuff that at the moment have next to no effect on anything related to your game at all.

[Willfor]

A entire other option is to remove some of the features designed over the years, like the dynamic world, in principle it is a very cool feature, but when playing a fort. Do one really care if the rest of the world is changing? As I remember it, that feature did cost something around 20% of the fps.

Hey, yeah, why don't we remove the primary feature that makes DF so great? The thing that none of the DF clones actually even try to copy? The part of the game the Toady actually really, truly enjoys making, and part of what makes it a game worth featuring in the museum of modern art? That'll really help development along.

:V

I don't think you understand what I mean, or else have you maybe just started playing this version?
In a not so ancient past, when you started the game the rest of the world froze, whereas now the game simulate a lot of stuff that at the moment have next to no effect on anything related to your game at all.

Oh, no, I am fully aware of that. I just have two questions for you.

1) Now that armies and visitors move on the world map, how is anyone going to arrive at your fort if they are not allowed to move in the world? 2) When we're able to send armies out from our fortresses, a feature that is in the works, how exactly are they going to be able to move if the rest of the world isn't active?

The active world is actually the most important part of the game for me. That there is a living world outside my fortress makes everything a lot better than when the world simply stopped. Dwarf Fortress as a project is 100% about that feature being expanded as opposed to eliminated.

[MobRules]

I made this thread (I'm hardly the first) because the issue should be brought up frequently.

Why? Do you think that anyone is going to forget that the game will need some optimization eventually? What are you trying to accomplish?

[Kirkegaard]

A entire other option is to remove some of the features designed over the years, like the dynamic world, in principle it is a very cool feature, but when playing a fort. Do one really care if the rest of the world is changing? As I remember it, that feature did cost something around 20% of the fps.

Hey, yeah, why don't we remove the primary feature that makes DF so great? The thing that none of the DF clones actually even try to copy? The part of the game the Toady actually really, truly enjoys making, and part of what makes it a game worth featuring in the museum of modern art? That'll really help development along.

:V

I don't think you understand what I mean, or else have you maybe just started playing this version?
In a not so ancient past, when you started the game the rest of the world froze, whereas now the game simulate a lot of stuff that at the moment have next to no effect on anything related to your game at all.

Oh, no, I am fully aware of that. I just have two questions for you.

1) Now that armies and visitors move on the world map, how is anyone going to arrive at your fort if they are not allowed to move in the world? 2) When we're able to send armies out from our fortresses, a feature that is in the works, how exactly are they going to be able to move if the rest of the world isn't active?

The active world is actually the most important part of the game for me. That there is a living world outside my fortress makes everything a lot better than when the world simply stopped. Dwarf Fortress as a project is 100% about that feature being expanded as opposed to eliminated.

1) Like they did before. They just spawn (and thereby eliminate a lot of problems, with enemies that never show up)
2) That will be a nice thing, but it is also something that very well could be two or more years out into the future. If it is even added. I don't think ideas of what can be done should be given much weight in regard to current features, especially not in a game like DF with a very slow development (one guy).

[Urlance Woolsbane]

A entire other option is to remove some of the features designed over the years, like the dynamic world, in principle it is a very cool feature, but when playing a fort. Do one really care if the rest of the world is changing? As I remember it, that feature did cost something around 20% of the fps.

Hey, yeah, why don't we remove the primary feature that makes DF so great? The thing that none of the DF clones actually even try to copy? The part of the game the Toady actually really, truly enjoys making, and part of what makes it a game worth featuring in the museum of modern art? That'll really help development along.

:V

I don't think you understand what I mean, or else have you maybe just started playing this version?
In a not so ancient past, when you started the game the rest of the world froze, whereas now the game simulate a lot of stuff that at the moment have next to no effect on anything related to your game at all.

Oh, no, I am fully aware of that. I just have two questions for you.

1) Now that armies and visitors move on the world map, how is anyone going to arrive at your fort if they are not allowed to move in the world? 2) When we're able to send armies out from our fortresses, a feature that is in the works, how exactly are they going to be able to move if the rest of the world isn't active?

The active world is actually the most important part of the game for me. That there is a living world outside my fortress makes everything a lot better than when the world simply stopped. Dwarf Fortress as a project is 100% about that feature being expanded as opposed to eliminated.

1) Like they did before. They just spawn (and thereby eliminate a lot of problems, with enemies that never show up)
2) That will be a nice thing, but it is also something that very well could be two or more years out into the future. If it is even added. I don't think ideas of what can be done should be given much weight in regard to current features, especially not in a game like DF with a very slow development (one guy).

Here's a thought: Why not pitch a "Turn Continuous World-Gen Off" feature on the Suggestions Forum? I mean, you can turn off temperature and whatnot, so it's not too far out.

[Shonai_Dweller]

A entire other option is to remove some of the features designed over the years, like the dynamic world, in principle it is a very cool feature, but when playing a fort. Do one really care if the rest of the world is changing? As I remember it, that feature did cost something around 20% of the fps.

Hey, yeah, why don't we remove the primary feature that makes DF so great? The thing that none of the DF clones actually even try to copy? The part of the game the Toady actually really, truly enjoys making, and part of what makes it a game worth featuring in the museum of modern art? That'll really help development along.

:V

I don't think you understand what I mean, or else have you maybe just started playing this version?
In a not so ancient past, when you started the game the rest of the world froze, whereas now the game simulate a lot of stuff that at the moment have next to no effect on anything related to your game at all.

Oh, no, I am fully aware of that. I just have two questions for you.

1) Now that armies and visitors move on the world map, how is anyone going to arrive at your fort if they are not allowed to move in the world? 2) When we're able to send armies out from our fortresses, a feature that is in the works, how exactly are they going to be able to move if the rest of the world isn't active?

The active world is actually the most important part of the game for me. That there is a living world outside my fortress makes everything a lot better than when the world simply stopped. Dwarf Fortress as a project is 100% about that feature being expanded as opposed to eliminated.

1) Like they did before. They just spawn (and thereby eliminate a lot of problems, with enemies that never show up)
2) That will be a nice thing, but it is also something that very well could be two or more years out into the future. If it is even added. I don't think ideas of what can be done should be given much weight in regard to current features, especially not in a game like DF with a very slow development (one guy).

Here's a thought: Why not pitch a "Turn Continuous World-Gen Off" feature on the Suggestions Forum? I mean, you can turn off temperature and whatnot, so it's not too far out.

Because:
a) It's the whole point of the game. And integral to most of the systems right now. Toady's not going to programme a new game with randomly generated sieges, visitors, creatures. He already made it,  it's free to download on the website (or play one of the many other fortress building games out there).
b) 20% is a number pulled out of someone's ass. Multi-tile trees and pathing issues could have just as much impact. Evidence? Testing? Oh you turned off the persistant world somehow to test it? Right....

[NJW2000]

Depends on world/lagginess of fort. Obviously. Also, object testing arena? You CAN turn off world activation for an experiment, by not having a world.

[Bumber]

Depends on world/lagginess of fort. Obviously. Also, object testing arena? You CAN turn off world activation for an experiment, by not having a world.

And weather. And tree growth(?). And jobs/wealth/HFS/wild animals/every other fort thing. All the world info that still needed to be tracked before the activation. It's never just the activation.

[Urist McVoyager]

People, there is a VERY obvious solution to all of this that was glanced on but not actually discussed.

See, every time a new version comes out, it breaks things like DF Hack and Dwarf Therapist. And those crews figure out the changes they need to make, and they make them. New version comes out. Now, I'm sure Toady has someone in mind for when he does need help. He could give them the code, tell them to optimize it wherever they can, and release it as a mod like all the other utilities that are out there. Call it DF Optimized!

Yes, I know, such things take a looooong time. But you know what else happens every time Toady makes a new release? Bugs. And complaint threads worse than this one where somebody actively bitches (this one isn't actually a bitch fest and if these threads are done RIGHT and encourage us thinking like I'm doing now, they'd honestly be a great thing) before saying "I'm going back to version (enter number here) where you actually got it right." So we know right off the bat that even if DF Optimized version .42 didn't come out for another year when DF regular got its own update, there would still be a playerbase for it. Heck, probably a big one. Because when you're given a choice between "Buggy as Hell experimental version that could be an enjoyable new game" and "Upgraded but otherwise familiar older version" there's a high chance you'll check your hard drive space before downloading both and enjoying them.

[Witty]

words

This isn't how the Toad rolls. Coding with others, or sharing the code at all isn't going to happen. Hell, the only thing I can think of that might change Toady's mind on the subject is if the FPS Death becomes totally unmanageable or something. And even then I doubt it'll happen. 

[Urist McVoyager]

It's already stated that Toady has plans in place to make the code open sourced if he dies in a non-murdery way. So that whole not sharing thing isn't necessarily true. That being said, you're absolutely right in that it's not likely at all. Unless he has a coding friend he can trust to sort through his Frankenstein code and fix it. Which hasn't happened yet. It probably never will, but probably never is a far cry from absolutely never.

[NorkasAradel]

it's toady's pet project (he'll never stop working on it), and it's fanbase is insanely dedicated to the game (they'll never stop playing it)
it ain't goin anywhere m8

[amistospindraca]

Technically, Dwarf Fortress is doomed.  It won't survive the heat death of the Universe.  But this isn't particularly relevant to performance issues.

It was inevitable.

(Obligatory...)

[TheBiggerFish]

I'm going to PTW, but this is a bit much !!NEEDLESS PANIC!!.

[exdeath]

A entire other option is to remove some of the features designed over the years, like the dynamic world, in principle it is a very cool feature, but when playing a fort. Do one really care if the rest of the world is changing? As I remember it, that feature did cost something around 20% of the fps.

What? This is one of the most important feature, so important that my opinion releasing this feature in anything other than the first version of an game, is releasing it too late.