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[Ardent Debater]

Note, this is not a Historical Debate Thread, the Bubonic Plague definitely had nothing to do with walking corpses. That said, I had this idea while drinking some Coffee, it came out of nowhere but it was an interesting enough concept that I had to put it on the Forums to see what you think.

Let's say that the Pandemic starts during 1348, in Venice, Italy.

1.)The Zombies can only infect Humans. If a Human dies without sufficient damage to the Brain they reanimate as a Zombie in 12-18 Hours.

2.)The Zombies cannot feel Pain or Fear. Or become Exhausted, since they are Zombies.

3.)The Zombies cannot heal from Damage as they are Corpses.

4.)The Zombies are much stronger than a Normal Human since they don't have any restraint and are operating at 100% of their Physical Capacity.

5.)The Zombies are reasonably Fast, moving about as quickly as a speed-walking Human and are fairly clumsy.

6.)The Zombies instinctively Bite and Scratch Humans, If a Human is Bitten or Scratched they become Infected and in 2-3 Days they will die of a Fever and reanimate.

7.)If a Zombie's Bodily Liquid, (i.e, Blood, Saliva, etc) gets in a Human they become Infected.

8.)The Zombies will Rot normally for about a Day and a Half, beyond that they stop Rotting.

9.)The Zombies are able to Grab Humans.

10.)The Zombies naturally congregate in Hordes and wander towards the last noise they heard. If they see a Human they will attempt to Attack it, If they see a Wild Animal they will attempt to Eat it.

11.)The Zombies Moan instinctively.

12.)The Zombies are unable to use Tools.

13.)The Zombies can survive without Food and Water indefinitely.

14.)Wild Animals normally avoid Zombies unless they're Starving or Cornered.

15.)The Zombies do Bleed but they don't Bleed as long or as vigorously as Humans.

What do you guys think would happen?

[RedKing]

One problem -- the Black Plague didn't start a priori in Venice. It started in Central Asia in the late 1000's/early 1100's and was brought to the Middle East by the Mongol invasion, and then picked up and carried back to Europe by the Cruasders. The reason it went absolutely bonkers in Europe was the population density, especially along the Mediterranean.

So are we saying that the Plague mutated into a Z-virus in Venice, or do we have a scenario where there's been a smoldering zombie problem in Asia for a couple hundred years?

[My Name is Immaterial]

Is the virus still spread through pests?

[Baffler]

Assuming it mutated into a zombie virus in Venice, I think this is late enough in human history that it could be dealt with fairly effectively but early enough that removing it entirely would be very slow going. The actual zombies are unlikely to be all that much of a threat to the heavy cavalry and halberd/crossbow combinations that were fashionable at the time in large numbers, though on an individual level untrained people would be a lot less able to defend themselves since guns aren't a thing and effective melee combat is a skill that requires a big investment of time to not be useless with. I figure it would burn itself out pretty quickly, but linger on in small numbers when zombies get missed (maybe they wandered off after a squirrel or something and got lost in the woods) and occasionally flare up again. That's assuming it makes it out of Venice though. If it doesn't, there's not much room for them to hide and they'd most likely be completely exterminated in a matter of days. Maybe more depending on how quickly they catch on to how it spreads.

[Helgoland]

Could be interesting as a biological weapon in that setting though. Think catapulting corpses - but moving ones!

[PanH]

Assuming it mutated into a zombie virus in Venice, I think this is late enough in human history that it could be dealt with fairly effectively but early enough that removing it entirely would be very slow going. The actual zombies are unlikely to be all that much of a threat to the heavy cavalry and halberd/crossbow combinations that were fashionable at the time in large numbers, though on an individual level untrained people would be a lot less able to defend themselves since guns aren't a thing and effective melee combat is a skill that requires a big investment of time to not be useless with. I figure it would burn itself out pretty quickly, but linger on in small numbers when zombies get missed (maybe they wandered off after a squirrel or something and got lost in the woods) and occasionally flare up again. That's assuming it makes it out of Venice though. If it doesn't, there's not much room for them to hide and they'd most likely be completely exterminated in a matter of days. Maybe more depending on how quickly they catch on to how it spreads.

In terms of military, this is quite sound (based on armchair general assumptions  ), but do you have an army for every city ? Do you have nobles wanting to kill these things and not simply murder every peasants because "Apocalypse !". How would a superstitious medieval soldier (or man) even react to seeing a dead walking ? It's the demons walking ! The end of time ! What kind of medieval man has the willpower and strength to fight as a soldier against a horde of zombies, which are most likely outnumbering them ? And there's no powers politically united enough to set this back. The pope would probably say it's only divine punishment against the filthy Venetians. Even if he called a crusade, by the time it would be organized, it would be way too late.

It's not even taking into account the slowness of communication. If there's a week of travel to the nearest garrison, the pest might be a day away when you arrive, and maybe even already infecting the would-be recruits or soldiers, meaning the garrison is already compromised.

I guess only the English would be safe, if there's no contamination that comes there before zombies appears. Iceland looks safe, and so do the new World.

[ChairmanPoo]

I've always found the catapulting corpses thing to be bullshitty... not in the sense that it wasn't done, but in the sense that to me it sounds terribly ineffective. Y. pestis is basically transmitted either by fleas or by living, infected people.

[mainiac]

but do you have an army for every city ?

Yeah, that's kinda the point to feudalism.

[sprinkled chariot]

England can get infection through sailors trying to escape to england carrying that stuff with them.
There is no concept of quarantine still. And as I remember, medieval combat was not focused on aiming for the head, so those pesky peasants walking despite getting shot with 20 bolts in belly can surprise feudal army. Also feudal army is pretty likely go to lol time to pillage peasants mode.
Considering it travels not only to people, but to animals you eventually get flying hordes of zombie ravens and other birds as well( that is just like dwarf fortress) , zombie 800 kg armored angry battle horses or zombie elefants. Every river or ocean becomes full of zombie fish, zombie whales and probably even zombie sponges.

[My Name is Immaterial]

Considering it travels not only to people, but to animals you eventually get flying hordes of zombie ravens and other birds as well( that is just like dwarf fortress) , zombie 800 kg armored angry battle horses or zombie elefants. Every river or ocean becomes full of zombie fish, zombie whales and probably even zombie sponges.

1.)The Zombies can only infect Humans. If a Human dies without sufficient damage to the Brain they reanimate as a Zombie in 12-18 Hours.

[Grimlocke]

I suppose that seeing how it can only spread through direct contact it might not even make it out of Italy, though much of that would depend on the initial response.

Combat-wise the 14th century might actually be at an advantage as armor was fairly widespread already, even a simple gambeson and iron helm should keep someone safe from bites and scratches especially since I don't think zombies have much of a notion on how to circumvent armor.

Melee weapons are also more suited for keeping enemies at range, funny as that might sound, as even something simple as a boar spear will physically push a zombie out of range. A horde of zombies who have no notion of self-preservation blundering into a polearm block would just turn into a zombie mincing party, the only way the zombies would even get close enough to take a swing would be if the 'dead' zombies just gunked up the formation got too many weapons stuck in them.

Raising an army at the time happened mostly by levying, rallying together the knightly class from their day-to-day things and hiring mercenaries. Italy at the time was rife with mercenary companies and they were not as busy with the 100-years war as north-west Europe. The Holy Roman Empire stretched out pretty far into Italy and would probably respond fairly quickly to the apocalypse breaking out near its borders.

And should the 'Z-plague' spread further it would give enough cause for the rest of Europe to temporarily stop their bickering and cooperate against the general threat.

...

Yeah this is pretty fun to ramble about 

[Grim Portent]

I can't see them doing too much damage on a large scale, cavalry charges would pulp their brains and shatter their bones, large headed arrows fired by the hundreds or thousands would sever a few ligaments or tendons crippling them, even quite simple traps could crush a huge number of them. Roll a huge oak tree down a hill and it would probably kill/incapacitate a village worth of zombies.

Even fairly cheap thick padded clothing or soft leathers would stop a scratch or bite, metal armour would be nigh invulnerable against individual zombies, though a horde could probably kill someone through sheer attrition regardless.

The human population at the time was pretty spread out, with a large amount living in isolated villages with infrequent contact with cities, it would require a lot of luck for a large number of zombies to congregate on any given small population, and almost all population centers had walls, gates and guard animals. Given how hard it was for a dedicated group of humans to break into most fortified places a small zombie horde would have an extremely hard time at it, gates that can withstand battering rams and catapult fire are pretty good at surviving mere bodies crashing against them. A large enough number would probably be able to break down a gate eventually, but the pressure inflicted on those nearer the gate would crush them to paste long before the gate broke.

A lot will probably get crippled by their own clumsiness while wandering around, breaking legs and spines, accumulating small cuts and gashes that would heal on a living person. Extended unceasing travel on foot would result in any shoes they had on prior to death wearing out and those with bare feet would gradually wear their own feet to mere bone stumps forcing them to crawl.

Hell, depending on how smart they are it might be possible to make them walk off a cliff to their death with just a little effort. Use a bunch of men with fast horses and loud bells to lure zombies to a clifftop with rope ladders already in place, the men abandon their horses and climb down the cliff still ringing their bells, zombies follow the noise and fall to the bottom of the cliff, shattering bones and possibly pulping brains. The men will probably die if they can't climb down the cliff and get clear before the zombies start falling past them, but even if they do the zombies will keep walking off the cliff until they get distracted by another noise.

[Cheesecake]

Considering it travels not only to people, but to animals you eventually get flying hordes of zombie ravens and other birds as well( that is just like dwarf fortress) , zombie 800 kg armored angry battle horses or zombie elefants. Every river or ocean becomes full of zombie fish, zombie whales and probably even zombie sponges.

1.)The Zombies can only infect Humans. If a Human dies without sufficient damage to the Brain they reanimate as a Zombie in 12-18 Hours.

But animals might eat infected humans, who in turn are hunted by desperate peasants running away from the walking dead and pillaging vagabonds. Those animals might still have some undigested human bits left, and as they're killed the virus spreads, still dormant, until its eaten by humans.

Probably.... I don't biology, but that's my assumption. :p

Another question to all: If you were a peasant, through sheer luck, who was warned of this impending apocalypse before it started, what would you do? Where would you hide?

[Grimlocke]

But animals might eat infected humans, who in turn are hunted by desperate peasants running away from the walking dead and pillaging vagabonds. Those animals might still have some undigested human bits left, and as they're killed the virus spreads, still dormant, until its eaten by humans.

Probably.... I don't biology, but that's my assumption. :p

I doubt that really goes for rural areas, as the refugees would be running away from the zombies not towards them.

It might be a different thing during sieges though, where it was fairly common for the besieged side (and not uncommon for the besieging side) to run out of food and start 'hunting for vermin', which might at some point have nibbled on some dead zombies.

And if I were a peasant refugee.. hmm.. the best thing to do might be to appeal to the local landholder for protection, and if that fails to raise a militia of armed men and flee with the rest of the local peasantry towards an army. Alternately you could flee to some remote place like nearby mountains or swamps and just wait out the storm, especially if the local armed forces have an inclination for banditry.

[Neonivek]

Honestly even under these extra conditions to create "magic zombies" (don't worry, very few pieces of fiction don't use magic zombies. Even The Walking Dead uses magic zombies)

They would still be resolved rather quickly.

For example #4 deals with them rather quickly. As they might have no restraint but at the same time, they have no restraint and no ability to heal. With just two numbers alone every zombie has a time limit.