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[penguinofhonor]

Is it any worse than avoiding saying "next Friday" because people might not know whether you mean the next Friday or Friday next week? Things like that are something I've learned to avoid, no exclusive grammatical structures necessary.

I will say, I think it's a pretty compelling argument in favor of the comma that people generally pause before the "and" in a list (correct me if I'm wrong). After all, a comma is supposed to represent a mid-sentence pause.

[Tack]

Eh. As long as you commonly say 'This Friday', then 'Next Friday' becomes a logical progression. Although I do use 'Friday after this' as my salve-phrase.

Also, I found that when listing things (around the room) verbally I use an elongated 'and'. Which I think would be awful to represent in a sentence.

[SirQuiamus]

I will say, I think it's a pretty compelling argument in favor of the comma that people generally pause before the "and" in a list (correct me if I'm wrong). After all, a comma is supposed to represent a mid-sentence pause.

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

The very first thing that non-native students of English are taught about commas is: "If you hear a comma, there is a comma." Unlike the commas of many other languages, the English comma is not just an orthographical convention or a grammatical marker – it is, perhaps most importantly, a prosodic marker which signals a short pause or a change of intonation in speech. My point about the above example was that no-one who's even remotely fluent in English would intentionally divide "Barack Obama invited Bush, Kennedy and the strippers" into two prosodic units when reading the sentence aloud – you wouldn't read it as [Barack Obama invited Bush] , [Kennedy and the strippers] because that would obviously alter the meaning and make you sound like a foreigner. The Oxford comma is merely an accurate representation of the way it's actually pronounced: [Barack Obama invited Bush] , [Kennedy] , [and the strippers] .

EDIT:

Fun fact: In Finnish, nitpicking pedants are commonly called "comma-fuckers."

[Bauglir]

Fun fact: In Finnish, nitpicking pedants are commonly called "comma-fuckers."

what can i say, commas have got curves

[RedKing]

Fun fact: In Finnish, nitpicking pedants are commonly called "comma-fuckers."

what can i say, commas have got curves

And they're never on their period.

[i2amroy]

Lists are still functional with it - the meaning of "Go buy bread, eggs and cheese." is 100% clear. I'm sure someone has been confused by it somewhere, but it is a problem that seems to exclusively exist within debates about it.

As I noted earlier, it applies to only a specific subset of lists, those where the last two items are proceeded by a plural item that they could reasonably be a part of. So the statement "Go buy bread, eggs and cheese" doesn't apply here. (Though as I noted earlier I like to still use one for consistency). On the other hand try this list: "Go buy the groceries, eggs and cheese". When you read this it isn't immediately apparent whether the eggs and cheese is an aside (referring to the groceries) or part of the list (as in "go buy the normal groceries, as well as eggs and cheese"). It's also a problem that only occurs in writing, as your inflections in person will delineate the list for you.

Because the scenario occurs only in a small subset of lists, those with a plural item directly before the last two items in which the last two items could conceivably be included within it, the chance of a misunderstanding is small, though still existent. (I actually ran into a confusing scenario once, though an immediate query in the chat we were talking in cleared up exactly what they meant, however had it been in say a note instead of a dialogue then it would have been totally possible for me to make a mistake).

From a "speech" point of view I'd say the language as spoken certainly stands in favor of the oxford comma's use, even in cases where it wouldn't be necessary, as pointed out by SirQuiamus. If I am saying "Go buy the groceries, eggs, and cheese" where they are three separate things then I physically say "Go buy groceries *pause* eggs *pause* and cheese", as opposed to when the eggs and cheese are describing the groceries where I say "Go buy the groceries *pause* eggs and cheese".

[Bumber]

But Oxford commas look so weiird! They unnaturally stilt the sentence structure in my head.

But they divide lists into their proper component parts:
Words, stuff, blah, commas, and punctuation.
Words, stuff, blah, commas and punctuation.
It looks too off-balance without it!

[Tack]

Yes but you don't "hear" a comma in the iconic:
Please pick up milk, eggs, cheese, ham and bread'

The "and" acts as the comma there in order to preserve the cadence of the list.

[Shadowlord]

You don't? I do.

[Bauglir]

I definitely do hear it. Just before the "and".

[TheBiggerFish]

I definitely do hear it. Just before the "and".

Yeah.

[penguinofhonor]

I also hear the Oxford comma when I say that list.

I understand the argument that it's inelegant a bit more in writing than in speech (though personally I think it looks elegant). If you percieve a non-Oxford comma list like this:

Words, stuff, blah, commas and punctuation.

then the Oxford comma would look like a double separation to you.

[Egan_BW]

And is not a comma. Don't use and like it's a comma.

[wobbly]

From a "speech" point of view I'd say the language as spoken certainly stands in favor of the oxford comma's use, even in cases where it wouldn't be necessary, as pointed out by SirQuiamus. If I am saying "Go buy the groceries, eggs, and cheese" where they are three separate things then I physically say "Go buy groceries *pause* eggs *pause* and cheese", as opposed to when the eggs and cheese are describing the groceries where I say "Go buy the groceries *pause* eggs and cheese".

Except how I'd say it would be more like:

1. Buy groceries "pause" eggs "no pause" and cheese.
2. Buy groceries "no pause" eggs "no pause" and cheese.

Same with the stripper line. If bush & Kennedy are strippers there should be a colon there.

[Reelya]

Yes, but a semicolon would be the grammatically correct thing there, wouldn't it?
"Barack Obama invited the strippers; Bush and Kennedy."

Or a regular colon I dunno I think I'm discrediting myself here:
"Barack Obama invited the strippers: Bush and Kennedy."

But I don't believe people omitting the Oxford comma are ever actually doing it for... 'Expoundative lists'. So how is it so commonly being misattributed?

Most people never use semi-colons or colons regardless of how proper they are. Since you can't tell whether that comma was from a semi-colon-hater or from an Oxford-comma-hater, it's ambiguous.

Some people say that you can always reorder the list to remove the ambiguity. But reordering a list loses information. e.g. dedicating a book to "my parents, Ayn Rand and God" implies an order of preference: information about the relative contribution of the listed people to the work. A suggested rewriting it as "Ayn Rand, God and my Family" that avoids the Oxford comma removes the ambiguity, but this strategy puts additional constraints on the list ordering. Anything that constrains what you can say reduces the information density.